Believe it or not, this IS a serious question...

[Think. Again.]

trump has ruled that the determination of a person's sex is decided by the sex of the zygote at conception.

Which, as biological studies have shown us, for every human is "female".

On certain specific documents, it is stated that it is a criminal offense to be untruthful when filling out required information such as a person's age, full name, social security number, sex, etc.

My question...

Must we now all list our sex as female when such a declaration must be made truthfully by law?

Would anyone be committing a criminal offense by listing anything other than female as a response?

(Could this be the basis of a legal argument against trump's new rule?)

[Raine1967]

1. My husband and I agree, we are now in a same sex marriage.

We don't have a problem with that tongue-in-cheek joke.

He's f*cking things up so bad that definitions will no longer matter.

[Amaryllis]

26. Not only definitions but the line between satire and reality, while on shaky ground for some time, has completely

disappeared.

[William769]

2. Could this be the reason I turned out Gay?

Are all other men Gay but just closeted? Will this mystery ever be unraveled? So many questions!

[Bettie]

23. Well, since we all started out the same

there is no gay or straight or whatever....we are attracted to other humans (I guess, mostly, since there are, um, outliers in that), so it's all just which humans you prefer.

[Think. Again.]

32. Yep, I've always thought that pansexual is the pure orientation...

...with any variation on that occurring as one's preferences are formed from experiences with other people.

[Martin68]

47. If that is true, why are do so many people have a strong attraction to a particular gender even when it makes life

difficult for them? Why do so many report that that their preferences was strongly felt from a very young age? I would suggest our sexual preferences are formed through a complex interplay of genetic and environmental factors. There is no such thing as a "pure orientation," whatever that is supposed to mean.

[Think. Again.]

51. All very good questions...

...and it's such a complex subject.

There are so many variables involved, emotional experiences, procreation drives, even just personal aesthetic preferences, and more, no wonder there's such a wide diversity of individual situations.

But we have to start somewhere and I think we all probably start out open to anything, or everything.

[dweller]

3. In truth

It’s ALL MAMMALS that begin as female
Birds and reptiles on the other hand begin as male


✌🏻

[Think. Again.]

4. I stand corrected!

...(and still confused about how I must answer the question of my sex on this damn juror reporting form).

[3catwoman3]

5. And what does one do if they have one of the many...

...sex chromosome aneuploidies:

X&Y chromosome variations in males include:
47,XXY (Klinefelter syndrome)
47,XYY
48,XXYY
48,XXXY
49,XXXXY

X chromosome variations in females include:
45,X (Turner syndrome)
47,XXX (Trisomy X or Triple X)
48,XXXX (Tetrasomy X)
49,XXXXX (Pentasomy X)

[BumRushDaShow]

38. Your example was one of the main reasons the "X" designation was added to the passport under the Biden administration

[MineralMan]

6. Yeah, it's more complicated than that.

Which means that Trump's male or female dichotomy is wrong from the start.

Really, it's a genetic thing. If you're XX, your genotype is female. If it is XY, it's male. However even then, issues during gestation can cloud the issue.

But, those are only two of the genotypes possible. There are various mixtures of X and Y chromosomes that exist. In those cases, it's not at all clear. But, there are real people with those rare, but not impossible genotypes. Lots of them. I grew up with a friend who was an XXY. Klinefelter's syndrome. It was a problem for him, and confused his identity from birth. Anyhow there are several mixed genotypes. Someone upthread has listed them. There are real people with all of them out there.

'Taint that simple, Trump. Not at all.

[Think. Again.]

11. Yes, I understand trump is wrong (as usual)...

...but that doesn't relieve people who are filling out legally binding documents from having to answer truthfully, and since the president of the U.S. has declared that sex is determined "at conception", a moment when all fertilized zygotes are understood as being female, does that mean everyone has to identify themselves as female when attesting legally to their sex?

[MineralMan]

17. But, it would be incorrect to mark Female, since the genetic genotype is the

real indicator. The dilemma persists, because the sex shown on the birth certificate is not determined after a genetic test, but after a visual examination.

And that's where all the confusion comes from. And never mind the issues that arise when the individual believes that what was on the birth certificate is incorrect. Which is why the binary choice is wrong. It will always be wrong in some cases.

That's the direction things need to go, in court. And the only way to settle this will be in federal courtrooms, frankly.

[Think. Again.]

19. Does trump's order supercede all other indications...

...as the wording of the order implies?

[MineralMan]

21. In my opinion, it does not. Also in many other opinions.

So, it's yet another thing that is going to end up in court. Your "everyone begins as female," is also incorrect. As soon as fertilization takes place, genetic analysis can determine the sex of the embryo. But, as is clear, that does not completely tell the story.

[Think. Again.]

25. Not according to the National Library of Medicine...

All human individuals—whether they have an XX, an XY, or an atypical sex chromosome combination—begin development from the same starting point. During early development the gonads of the fetus remain undifferentiated; that is, all fetal genitalia are the same and are phenotypically female. After approximately 6 to 7 weeks of gestation, however, the expression of a gene on the Y chromosome induces changes that result in the development of the testes.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222286/

[caraher]

33. I would make a slightly different argument

I understand that, "left alone," the default would be female genitalia. But that same link also notes

Until about the 12-millimeter stage (approximately 42 days of gestation), the embryonic gonads of males and females are indistinguishable.

Under the executive order's definition, which places the determination at the time of "conception" and explicitly avoids appeal to genetics, I think should all be considered nonbinary. So everyone would be wrong!

[Think. Again.]

35. I'm all for that!

[TommyT139]

37. Don't tell Trump the NLM is still online!!

Some groups are scurrying to replicate the sites, but I suspect not the NLM's resources.

[Think. Again.]

44. Damn, that's a very good point.

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. The Executive Order does not mention "genotype", however (or "gene" or "genetic")

It says

"“Sex” shall refer to an individual’s immutable biological classification as either male or female."

But it doesn't specify whether this "immutable biological classification" is the genotype or phenotype.

So, LOL, "After his executive order on sex, is Trump legally the first female president?"

[RandomNumbers]

40. The failure to recognize non-binary genotypes

(by people who otherwise meet a basic standard of intelligence and ability to find factual sources for questions)

is one of the first clues that they do not care about other people as people. They only care about the people that fit into their world and their own desires.

[MineralMan]

42. Yeah, but it's more than that.

They reject and are offended by anything that doesn't fit their narrow little definitions. Often, encountering non-binary people even makes them angry.

They're not affected by any of it, of course. Today, a story in my morning paper said that an NCAA official said that there were only 90 transgender collegiate athletes in the county. That's an insignificant number, really. Nobody would notice if nobody mentioned it. But, the outrage about it is amazing.

Going ballistic about something that is barely noticeable is a symptom of something bad going on in those people's heads. Instead of shrugging the whole thing off, they get all bent out of shape. Scary,

[Retrograde]

50. Thanks for clearing up this misconception

I just finished reading Carl Zimmer's "She Has Her Mother's Laugh", about genetics and why it's not as simple as most people think it is.

[Raine1967]

7. The Guardian asked the question as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/25/trump-executive-order-sex?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

[KentuckyWoman]

8. That is not accurate.

Sperm are either X or Y.
Egg is always X.
Which ever sperm wins the race, that's the result.

There are some rare variations, chromosome wise as Mineral Man pointed out. But scientific gender is decided the minute conception takes place.

None of which has one blessed thing to do with the whole conversation about which bathroom people are allowed to use, or whether they are allowed to wear pearls with a tux. It's just an idiotic conversation from the start.

[Think. Again.]

9. Fertilized zygotes begin as female ("at conception")..

[KentuckyWoman]

10. I guess that's new to me.

Even looking online to fact check myself, Cleveland Clinic says sex does not change after conception. I'm old. My education is old. I'll defer to your knowledge then.

[Think. Again.]

12. Here ya go...

"All human individuals—whether they have an XX, an XY, or an atypical sex chromosome combination—begin development from the same starting point. During early development the gonads of the fetus remain undifferentiated; that is, all fetal genitalia are the same and are phenotypically female. After approximately 6 to 7 weeks of gestation, however, the expression of a gene on the Y chromosome induces changes that result in the development of the testes.

Source: National Library of Medicine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222286/

[KentuckyWoman]

27. So we aren't really talking about the same thing

I understand about the anatomy growth. Thanks for clarifying.

[Think. Again.]

28. Yes, my concern is that trump's order...

...clearly states we must define our sex by what is biologically apparent at conception, which, for everyone, is medically understood to be female.

[digsub]

13. Colbert's take...

[yardwork]

14. That EO is so absurd and non-scientific, it's impossible to enforce.

[Think. Again.]

16. Yes, but what legal jeopardy does that put...

...anyone in who does not list themselves as "female" when they are legally required to list their true sex?

[yardwork]

18. Nobody knows, I guess.

Trump has thrown the concept of law and order out the window. We're in absurdism now. I don't think that "legal jeopardy" really applies. It's more like "if you cross me I'll destroy you one way or the other."

Chaos.

[Think. Again.]

22. I agree. unfortunately...

...I'm faced with completing a juror notification form this morning, which is stating that under law I must truthfully indicate my sex, and since trump's order from a few days ago, I feel it could be argued that I was criminally liable for lying if I indicate anything other than "female".

[GreenWave]

15. And this is known as the "zygomatic process". Right. maggots?

[MLWR]

20. Surely you don't expect him to know anything at all about biology

or any other science.

[Think. Again.]

24. Nope, I don't ....

...but I'm curious about what I am legally required to list as my sex on legally binding documents.

[czarjak]

29. Breaking it down to zygotes?

W was correct, Believe It Or Not. "Our enemies never stop thinking of ways to harm us."

[Think. Again.]

30. Yes, trump's order specifies that our sex is determined "at conception", therefore, zygotes.

[czarjak]

31. Just. Wow.

[AllaN01Bear]

34. ive been pondering that for a while now.

so , is dumptser fire now a female ? maddame prez?

[Think. Again.]

36. Maybe he's trying to tell us something?

[rubbersole]

39. Yea!

Free drinks on ladies' night!

[GiqueCee]

41. When I have to respond to a MAGA moron on this subject...

... I ask them, "Do you know why men have nipples?" It is not a non sequitur. I then point out exactly what the OP said, that every human – in deed, I think it's every mammal – is FEMALE at conception, and that the Y chromosome does not manifest itself until later in the gestation period.
Like every other phase of fetal development, the timing of these changes is infinitely variable. It is why people are born gay every day, and some exhibit gender dysphoria quite early in childhood. Simplistic assumptions, like those of the Malevolent Man-Baby currently defiling the Oval Office, are the product of weak minds too rigid to accept or assimilate new information, as is the case for every conservative that Satan ever defecated.

[Wiz Imp]

43. (Could this be the basis of a legal argument against trump's new rule?)

Yes. Yes it could. The executive order attempt to override science, which the government can't do (not that they don't try).

[LeftInTX]

45. There are no laws that state that EOs must be scientifically accurate.

[Think. Again.]

46. Now we're bordering on actual, certifiable, insanity.

[Wiz Imp]

49. In this case, the science provides a valid legal basis for striking down the executive order.

AS the OP indicated, based on the executive order language, pretty much the entire population is female. I can't imagine the courts will let that stand.

EOs need to be constitutional and based in reality to stand. If Trump issued an executive order declaring the US recognizes the earth as flat, do you think that would stand?

[LeftInTX]

52. I agree with that. They must be constitutional. I don't agree with this EO. Hopefully it will be struck down.

I don't trust SCOTUS.

However, there is no law stopping him from writing an EO recognizing that the earth is flat. He could do it just as an exercise in mind control.

[Jit423]

48. The "poorly educated" win again. nt

[Think. Again.]

53. Yep.

[MichMan]

55. Does that mean every gender specific facility is now mixed?

[Think. Again.]

56. I think it means that all American citizens are now classified as female by law.

[LeftInTX]

57. Until recently, the Texas Democratic Party required a male and female representative for each district in our SDEC

Recently they added nonbinary. I believe it was in 2022???

The current rule is:

Two persons who identify as different genders from each Congressional district shall be recommended by the Delegates from the counties composing the respective Congressional districts.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JSOR5a6pwETuiihDgQE2rQGNM4MXFDJ-7vYdO8_XLuQ/edit?tab=t.0

[Think. Again.]

58. The irony is...

...trump just seemed to make being non-binary the law of the land.