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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf these folks are freeloaders, why is ICE always raiding work places?
Saw this on reddit.
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Shambala
(83 posts)Maybe ICE is arresting the business owners who are hiring the “illegals” 
erronis
(17,628 posts)Straight into a trump-controlled untraceable crypto account.
BattleRow
(1,343 posts)
Oneironaut
(5,885 posts)Conservatives think in hierarchies, and, factory jobs, farm jobs, etc. are the same as being unemployed in their minds. It also makes them inferior humans.
CrispyQ
(38,946 posts)One of my biggest pandemic disappointments has been how many Americans have forgotten what our economy was like when store clerks & stockers stayed home. When all the people who do all the jobs we look down on stayed home the economy came to a stop. Wouldn't have mattered if the CEOs went to the office or to work. They weren't & never have been the ones keeping things chugging along.
magicarpet
(17,515 posts).... and not put white folks on the payroll ?
Is there an advantage to hiring Hispanics, even though it is illegal for the employer to do so ? What might that advantage be ?
Bluethroughu
(6,675 posts)Free labor.
AllaN01Bear
(23,800 posts)Bluethroughu
(6,675 posts)And not red state immigrants...business owners enslaving other humans is just fine by them, as long as the Reich people benefit.
JT45242
(3,087 posts)They have been very active in Iowa City. The blue dot in the red hellscape that is Iowa.
Biophilic
(5,216 posts)They are physically challenging, often very hot or cold, and pay shit wages.
questionseverything
(10,403 posts)Biophilic
(5,216 posts)Could you work in the cold conditions in meat packing factories? Could you survive picking strawberries from sun up to sundown , again in Florida or California? They do the jobs that few white people want or are even physically able to do. I spent 20 years running riding schools. The winters were brutal and the summers damn hot, and that was in Michigan. The thing was I could take breaks when I needed to and shut the whole thing down when the temperatures were too extreme. Those workers can’t. And Florida made a new law last year that forbid cities from requiring reasonable breaks and water. No, it’s not just the shitty wages.
questionseverything
(10,403 posts)But ( in Illinois) those are well paid, highly sought after jobs, the big difference is the pay
No one, no matter what race or ethnicity should be working w/o breaks so I don’t see that as a selling point for you
Biophilic
(5,216 posts)My point was that no one wants these jobs except people who are willing to take anything to get a pay check. And Florida thinks it's fine for people to work without a break. I live here.
questionseverything
(10,403 posts)By keeping a permanent illegal under class of workers here, everyone’s job is devalued and it allows the 1%ers to screw everyone over
Biophilic
(5,216 posts)
OldBaldy1701E
(7,042 posts)Well, that and this habit that some corporations have about making light of the most dangerous jobs so that they don't have to pay anyone extra to do it. Do they really think I want to clean restrooms for minimum wage, knowing such rooms are rife with disease and infection possibilities? They don't care, so that job is seen as 'low wage'. Plus, the pandemic has made these leeches start really pushing for A.I. and robotic workers. Those don't get sick and they don't complain and sue people for fair wages and treatment.
leftieNanner
(15,822 posts)Hardest damned workers you have ever seen!
Three Mexican brothers (here legally) took care of a horse sanctuary where I used to volunteer. Mucking out stalls and pastures for 55 or more horses! Taking care of the fences and the grounds. Truly hardest damned workers!
bdamomma
(67,237 posts)are Americans going to do those vacant jobs????
I keep on thinking about this:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
— Martin Niemöller
RESIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They used to hire "white" dudes regularly to help and they never came back the next day! The work was too hard and fast.
CrispyQ
(38,946 posts)would you work in a field picking fruit all day for $20 an hour & 50% said no way. I'll bet after a day's work even fewer would stick it out.
leftieNanner
(15,822 posts)Is even more popular.
questionseverything
(10,403 posts)Those jobs pay by the bushel
CrispyQ
(38,946 posts)Cirsium
(1,633 posts)There will be much more imported produce. That meas lower health and safety standards, fewer environmental protections, and worse conditions for the workers.
Capital (wealthy people) moves freely across borders seeking cheap labor and less regulation. Labor (poor people) moves across borders at tremendous risk and hardship seeking to survive.
We could hire 50,000 farm workers and give them all a pay raise for the amount of passive income immigrant Elon Musk pockets every year.
No Democrat should be confused as to which side we stand on immigration.
Cirsium
(1,633 posts)Growers here are desperate for workers. If a person shows up and wants to work, and have documentation. I they do not have documentation, the process to get them legal status is started immediately. Meanwhile, they are given food and shelter (just as any decent person would do for a stray doing or cat ffs!) Now they are in legal combo. No one is trying to cheat or get away with anything. People are trying to survive, both the grower and the worker, but millions of people languish in legal status hell through no fault of their own. That is no accident. The right wingers want to keep the immigrant hysteria going but at the same time they know that the workers are desperately needed. So they make sure everything is kept up in the air and nothing ever gets resolved.
Workers are not turned away, nor should they be, because they "look" Hispanic. Law enforcement should not be called based on a person's ethnicity. I have never seen workers paid less based on their legal status or ethnicity. Language and illiteracy are the biggest barriers to advancement, and the children of immigrants almost always move into better jobs because they have the language skills we all take or granted. Growers should not be forced to be agents for law enforcement. All workers have taxes withheld.
Labor shortages are more likely to be advantageous for workers. With the immense pressure from ICE growers do not want to do anything illegal and attract swat team paramilitary raids, nor do the workers. The Republican cry that the workers are criminals is false, but so is the cry from many Democrats that the employers are criminals
I understand that things might be different in other areas and in other industries. This is based on my extensive observations involving hundreds of small growers in the Midwest.
So, why would the employers be hiring these Hispanics and not put white folks on the payroll? Because the crops will rot in the fields otherwise and people who are educated, literate and speak English have other options and do not apply for the jobs no matter what their ethnicity is. There was a time, not so long ago when most migrant farm workers were white, Dust Bowl refugees and their children. It is about economics, not race nor legal status. Illegal immigrants like Melania Trump and Elon Musk don't apply for farm work.
Full disclosure, I am not an owner and I am a strong advocate for farm workers' rights.
magicarpet
(17,515 posts)It helps in the understanding of this convoluted problem.
Cirsium
(1,633 posts)Thanks for reading it.
MichMan
(14,036 posts)I know some people employing documented pay cash and evade all the taxes that are required by law.
Growers are under a lot of scrutiny. It is a relatively small and tight knit community, and when someone is cheating on something word gets around. Back 50-60 years ago or so it was a lot more "Wild West." I picked fruit summers back then. I think it was cash under the table. Hard work, but important work.
Response to Cirsium (Reply #18)
Post removed
Cirsium
(1,633 posts)Could you explain what you are talking about? It doesn't make any sense to me. Are you responding to the right person?
homegirl
(1,627 posts)minimum wage or less and no benefits!!
Posted for reposting convenience
I have pretty extensive experience here in Michigan, though it may be different elsewhere and in other industries. Workers are getting $18-20 an hour and getting free housing. That is for experienced, often permanent workers in the tree fruit sector. I think the average for all farms here is about $16, and the lowest is $10 for part time or temporary work. Immigrants get free health care here through a private charity. Not sure how unusual that is.
homegirl
(1,627 posts)Guess away.
You can help:
Children’s Health Fund’s national network is uniquely qualified to serve the needs of immigrant children including undocumented and unaccompanied children, refugees, and U.S.-born children with undocumented parents, guardians, or siblings.
The national network provides quality, culturally competent care and connects families to social and legal services. Our partners in New Orleans and New York sustain medical-legal partnerships focused on meeting immigration related needs, and several programs offer extensive case management and mental health services to support the needs of immigrant and refugee patients.
Our national network partners also screen for adverse childhood experiences and social determinants of health, referring patients accordingly.
https://www.childrenshealthfund.org/spotlight-on-immigrant-health/
As an organization committed to strengthening the nation’s public health systems and achieving health equity, APHA supports policies that encourage positive health behaviors and promote access to health services, regardless of an individual’s citizenship status.
Recent U.S. immigration policies have led to substantial fears among immigrant communities that are driving people away from accessing basic health services, setting the stage for a public health crisis. Similarly, the practice of separating families at U.S. border crossings and the conditions in which they are being held is cause for great concern. These policies and practices threaten the health and well-being of millions of lawfully present immigrants and those seeking asylum at the U.S.-Mexico border.
https://www.apha.org/topics-and-issues/immigrant-health
When Congress enacted the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, CHIRLA worked within what became the CIPC to pass state measures such as the California Food Assistance Program (CFAP) and California Cash Assistance Program for Immigrants (CAPI), to help poor affected families gain an economic foothold. Later, when healthcare reform failed in California in 2008, we joined the Having Our Say coalition to ensure immigrants were included.
Nationally, the push for healthcare reform gained ground in 2008 as President Obama made it a centerpiece of his agenda. CHIRLA joined Health Care for America, a national coalition to build support for the move. After the Affordable Health Care Act (ACA) passed, CHIRLA in 2013 received a grant from CoveredCalifornia. We helped identify over 360,000 individuals who were eligible in California for coverage under this program. This work and our advocacy helped when California expanded full-scope MediCal to all children, regardless of status, in 2016.
https://www.chirla.org/what-we-do/our-priority-issues/immigrant-access-to-healthcare/
Federally funded Medicaid and CHIP (Children’s Health Insurance Program) is available to otherwise-eligible “qualified” immigrants who entered the U.S. before August 22, 1996, and those who have held a “qualified” status for five years or longer. Refugees and other “humanitarian” immigrants, veterans, active duty military and their spouses and children, and certain other immigrants can get Medicaid or CHIP without a five-year waiting period.
The table describes state policies for providing health coverage to additional groups of immigrants, under federal options to cover lawfully residing children and pregnant women, regardless of their date of entry into the U.S., or to provide prenatal care to women regardless of immigration status, using CHIP funds. It also describes immigrant coverage under programs using exclusively state funds.
https://www.nilc.org/resources/medical-assistance-various-states/
Hugin
(35,343 posts)Pretending to work.
They learned that from watching the GOP Congress.
Ocelot II
(122,649 posts)They are sitting idle, freeloading off the government while at the same time stealing jobs from Americans.*
*Americans don't want those jobs for what the immigrants are being paid, but that's a whole 'nother matter.
LiberalArkie
(17,176 posts)Cirsium
(1,633 posts)That is such an ignorant, vicious right wing lie, isn't it? Undocumented people pay into Social Security, for example, even though they will probably never see anything returned to them.
Response to Cirsium (Reply #22)
LiberalArkie This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cirsium
(1,633 posts)Understood.
Fake Social Security numbers are common. SS administration takes the withheld funds, no questions. I am sure that in other industries immigrants are paid under the table, but not in my observation on the farms here.
homegirl
(1,627 posts)utilize the 20 second option to verify social security numbers. Takes two years to catch up with them. Meanwhile the employer pockets the FICA deductions made from the workers pay and the employers portion goes to Social Security (maybe)!
MichMan
(14,036 posts)Cirsium
(1,633 posts)I haven't seen that on farms in Michigan. Not saying that it is not possible, just that it must be uncommon.
MichMan
(14,036 posts)Thanks.
Last edited Sun Jan 26, 2025, 05:11 PM - Edit history (1)
People who are literate and educated have better options, no matter where they came from.
However, for most immigrants the work they can get here is vastly superior to what they can get back home. Otherwise, why would they suffer such hardships, take such risks, and make so many sacrifices? They are taking the only path that will give their children a future. They are courageous, they are heroes, the best of the best among us. They are propping up the US economy, keeping Social Security solvent, and feeding the nation.
Never before in the existence off humankind has there been a population so alienated from and ignorant about their own source of food as are the people in the US. Ignorant, spoiled, and cruel.
Attilatheblond
(5,035 posts)Even harder for Americans to notice where their food came from after that and until the label rule was reinstalled.
Cirsium
(1,633 posts)There were also trade violations that hurt growers here. Bush's donors, the Amway folks, were importing massive amounts of apple juice concentrate and flooding the market. Then there was the fake honey that dominated the grocery shelves, and the fake orange juice.
Attilatheblond
(5,035 posts)The Bush years were a horror for him
Cirsium
(1,633 posts)So much great work from the USDA.
Attilatheblond
(5,035 posts)NRCS, Natural Resource Conservation Service, does good work to improve the relationship of food producers and environment/wildlife. Unsung public servants most people never even heard of.
Cirsium
(1,633 posts)Not to forget the National Agricultural Statistics Service.
Attilatheblond
(5,035 posts)Magoo48
(5,819 posts)A question one is unlikely to hear asked on MSM.
surfered
(4,678 posts)
Wiz Imp
(3,385 posts)Also, why aren't those employers ever punished for illegally employing undocumented workers?
Ford_Prefect
(8,261 posts)You'd better show us those badges for the cameras, and the lawyers, and be ready to answer the Senator under oath.
doc03
(37,318 posts) sop
(12,328 posts)Trump says immigrants are criminals and rapists, when in fact most are hard workers trying to make a living and send money home. ICE raids work places because most immigrants are working, not out on the streets committing crimes.
Initech
(103,322 posts)
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,773 posts)bucolic_frolic
(48,392 posts)Red county basements would mean too many stops.
dutch777
(3,804 posts)...tax base. Brilliant in a country that is short of labor and has major budgetary and long term public debt!!!
Why go there?
Go to country clubs and see the "millioniares" doing nothing - check them. Check the Golf Clubs around midday. There are your freeloaders
Xolodno
(6,821 posts)...despite those same white pasty asses would rather collect a welfare check than work for a living. And they call themselves the party of personal responsibility, go figure.
I say run up those tariffs, chase out the immigrants, etc. and watch those prices shoot through the roof and their welfare checks diminish. Sucks for the rest of us, but sometimes, just as I manage employee's, you have to let them fail to learn their lesson.
Too many can't see beyond the end of their nose, so, let reality do a mean hockey check on them.
Good God. We are now the ones advocating reducing thier benefits.
Emile
(32,134 posts)