Are we approaching "fiasco" level?

[EarlG]

Recently a friend of mine sent me a link to a re-run of a twenty year old This American Life episode called "Fiasco!" It's about an amateur dramatics performance of Peter Pan that goes terribly wrong, and it's hilarious. But it might also provide some insight into the current state of the Trump administration.

The episode explores the nature of a "fiasco" and "what takes our ordinary lives that extra distance into fiasco."

As the story in the podcast goes, most members of the Peter Pan audience were initially accepting and understanding of the errors that were unfolding in front of them. They had come to a play expecting to be entertained by the play in the traditional sense, and given that the actors seemed to be doing their best under difficult circumstances, the audience was initially on their side and remained polite as one mistake after another unfolded.

But at some point, a tipping point arrived. Suddenly the audience was no longer on the side of the performers. And once that point arrived, every single slight mistake, every error which might normally been ignored, was greeted by the audience with mockery. Because while the audience had initially been expecting one form of entertainment (a play) they eventually discovered that the play was so terrible that mocking it was more entertaining than the play itself.

The episode suggests that this tipping point separates what would have otherwise been just a bad play from a "fiasco." Once that tipping point arrived, there was nothing the performers could do to regain control.

Here are a couple of excerpts excerpts from the podcast which I found interesting in light of what's going on with Trump's recent polling numbers and the growing unpopularity of the policies he keeps doubling down on:

Ira Glass: And so now have we arrived at a turning point in our fiasco?

Jack Hitt: Yeah. Yeah, it's clear now that the audience is giving way. Something has been lost, some sense of decorum, that little bit of forgiveness that the audience has for the actors.

Ira Glass: And empathy.

Jack Hitt: And empathy. It's beginning to dissipate. Well, there was a split in the audience. Sort of the younger people who were the least forgiving, they started to go first, OK? So the high school students, couple of college students maybe, they started to laugh out loud. And I'll be honest, Ira, I might have been one of those first people to laugh. I was in the 10th grade. It was hard to not laugh at this.

Ira Glass: (LAUGHS)

Jack Hitt: But then whatever restraint that the audience had, it just evaporated at this point because there were a number of things that happened in quick succession that just made it impossible to hold any sense of decorum.

Jack Hitt: At this point, I mean, the actors are just falling apart. They are so frightened of the audience. There are just belly laughs rolling up to the stage from the audience. People are howling with laughter at every mistake. And now any small mistake just takes on these-- any instigation for laughter is just enough for this audience. And now the old people have given it up. Everyone has quit being nice. Now there's just this kind of frightening roar that comes from the audience every time there's a mistake.

Ira Glass: Well, what happened? At some point, the audience turned and realized, oh, wait. I realize what's going on here. This is a fiasco.

Jack Hitt: Yeah, this is a fiasco. And what's really interesting about a fiasco is that once it starts to tumble down, the audience wants to push it further along.

Ira Glass: Oh, they get hungry for more fiasco.

I realize that none of what the Trump administration is doing is laughable in the way that this performance of Peter Pan was. But this concept of a "fiasco" may suggest where the Trump administration could be heading in the eyes of the media and public.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I think we are approaching a "fiasco" my dear EarlG!

Your analogy is spot on.

[unblock]

2. It was a fiasco from when he made a stink about Obama's birth certificate.

But yeah, I get the point.

The "anything for short-term profit" republicans will put up with all kinds of nonsense if they think they'll make money; but start costing them big bucks and the support dries up eventually....

[EarlG]

5. I think technically it wasn't a fiasco though

After he made a stink about Obama's birth certificate, Trump was elected president. He still won -- his campaign didn't collapse. The point being made in the podcast is that a fiasco only really occurs once everyone sees it and starts to participate in it.

Trump's magic has been based in large part by people's belief that he is somehow an economic genius. If that facade crumbles -- which appears to be happening right now -- and he instead becomes associated with economic disaster, then it may be fiasco time for him. (And he will have done this to himself -- he went out of his way to make sure that everyone knew he loved tariffs and tariffs are the best thing ever, so he can't point the finger at anyone else this time.)

[unblock]

11. Trump's magic --

I see it differently. Back in the early days of wwe pro wrestling, I knew a bunch of people who delighted in pretending it was real -- not scripted or staged. It was a hilarious joke to them because it was ridiculously obviously scripted.

Anyone who wasn't "in" on the joke would say it's obviously scripted, then they would all insist no it wasn't! It's real! It would drive reasonable people nuts being unable to convince them of the blatantly obvious, they were laughing hysterically at people's heads exploding over it.

I think that was always Donnie's "magic". They set up this in-joke everyone knows he's an idiot but they all insist he's a genius and laugh at anyone who's not in on the joke. Then when it started to work in reality they just laughed even more.

On some level, they know the emperor has no clothes. But as long as the joke works for them, they'll continue.

So, maybe the "fiasco" point comes when they realize it no longer works for them?

Anyway, my point is that for those of us not in the trump bubble, he was always a fiasco.

[EarlG]

12. That's a great take

It provides a deeper explanation of my suggestion that’s Trump’s magic is his economic reputation. He does have that reputation, but it’s built upon the fundamentals you describe. So yes, if those fundamentals start breaking down, that could certainly provide the tipping point.

[Ponietz]

16. Interesting it took a child to point out the emperor has no clothes

[blubunyip]

39. I like the pro wrestling analogy

Loving the outrage, the spectacle, and believing it's real.

[calimary]

62. "...so he can't point the finger at anyone else this time"?

Oh he'll still try, though. Even if it doesn't work. And there still will be plenty of flunkies who still wanna believe.

[House of Roberts]

64. Trump was saved from exposure as an economic idiot by the pandemic.

Sure, he could have done several things the right way and improved the handling of the Covid itself, but no matter who was President the economy had to shut down to blunt the spread until a vaccine and better treatment methods were discovered. He was out of office before that could happen.
This time he's determined to effect his ideas immediately and it's too much too soon, and it's causing too much initial damage.

I still believe his goal is to please Putin by destroying American influence globally, and to get revenge on the whole country while enriching himself at the same time.

[louis-t]

73. He also had people in place the first time around that told him 'no'.

He took recommendations on who to hire, people who had experience and knew how government works. When he had a stupid idea, they would distract him with a shiny object or hope he forgot about it by the next day. Even John Bolton, the guy who never met a country he didn't want to bomb, was a better national security advisor than Waltz. He got rid of all of them and put the most incompetent ass-kissers he could find in their places. Now there is no one around to tell him 'no'.

[3Hotdogs]

56. No. That was not fiasco. That was Anal Fistula, just being an asshole. Now is the beginning of fiasco.

Last edited Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)

The Ukraine war that hasn't ended. The prices of food that haven't gone down. The Canadian election.

But the problem is, these haven't directly affected most Americans.

Fiasco is when prices rise.
Fiasco is when the shelves go empty for cheap, Chinese Christmas gifts.
Fiasco is when the price of a car goes up by a few thousand. Or even just one thousand.
And when your insurance premium goes up because the cost of materials to repair your stuff goes higher.
Fiasco is when Roths decline by 10 or more % and stay down for a year or so.
Fiasco is when your relatives lose their jobs.
Fiasco is when your small business goes down the shitter.
Fiasco is .....

[Mme. Defarge]

68. when your social security check

doesn’t arrive.

[kirby]

3. If only...

the stakes involved were as insignificant as whether or not we enjoy a play.

[SergeStorms]

4. Most Americans don't want a civil war?

You're kidding!

I believe we're already past fiasco, and are well into farce. Trump is a truly deranged individual, and his followers are equally deranged for thinking he was a viable alternative for democracy.

Just impeach the bastard (again) and let the ersatz hillbilly take a turn. Then we can clean house and start over again.

I'm totally sick of this garbage.

[EarlG]

7. Understood

And I'm also sick of the garbage. But... we're political junkies, and most people aren't. The nature of a true fiasco means that a large majority has to be involved -- not just one side, or a few people. It has to be something which crosses boundaries and sets in as conventional wisdom.

After 9/11, George W. Bush had a 90% approval rating. By the end of his second term, his approval rating was 33%. Republicans were absolutely crushed in the 2006 mid-terms and in the 2008 presidential election. These days you'd probably have a tough time finding a Trump Republican who admitted voting for Bush. Thanks to his own missteps with the invasion of Iraq, I think you can consider Bush's second term a true fiasco.

There are certainly lots of people who will never, ever give up on Trump, and until recently, it looked like his hold on the cult was so strong that a fiasco could never happen to him. But with the recent economic news, and polls reflecting serious discontent, I have to wonder whether we may yet reach a tipping point. Especially since the real damage from the tariffs hasn't even shown up yet.

[DENVERPOPS]

31. Again, I repeat

my thoughts for a perfect title for a book about the last 45+ years would be:

WHILE THE NATION SLEPT

[SergeStorms]

42. Do you mean.......

we're atypical Americans? Rats! And I so wanted to be "normal" for once.

You are, of course, correct on your point that we're not in the majority in our country. We should be, but aren't.
The vast majority of Americans simply don't take the time to examine the nuts and bolts of our government's situation. They're content to kick the tires and tell everyone else that they know what's going on, and which direction the country needs to be lead.

On second thought, I'm ecstatic that I'm not "normal."

[erronis]

18. There are too many (if not the majority) who want a civil war. "When can we start using our guns?"

They've stockpiled and prepped. They're ready.

[SergeStorms]

43. They're also loud-mouthed morons.....

just like their insipid leader. When push comes to shove, most will fire a shot or two and be content to share their "war stories" with anyone who'll listen. They're cowards, again, just like their leader. "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing," to quote the "Scottish play." 😉

[Ocelot II]

6. Approaching? Oh, we're there. Right in the middle of it.

[Dan]

10. No, we're not there yet IMO

But now that Amazon is going to show the cost of Trump’s Tariffs on their pricing - more people will become aware, even the non-politicals.

Arresting the judges and threatening to arrest SC members probably gathered some attention.

Now, wanting to use the military against citizens will gather even more.

But, I really the initial tipping point was when Canada didn’t back down; then the UK and EU didn’t back down; then China said to hell with you - that is when the Tariffs became real and we will see the impact. That is what Earl is suggesting, that is Trump’s signature item.

The next month there is going to be hell to pay and when Trumps tries to mobilize the military against the population - then all bets are off.

[Nittersing]

17. Amazon said they're just talking about showing tariff costs....

I'll be very surprised if Bezos does follow through.

[Dan]

19. I noticed the 'change' to talking.

Regardless, Bozo is going to have a hard time explaining the cost increases away.

Thanks for the catch.

[DENVERPOPS]

32. The increases are already showing up

Oh, and have you been seeing the pictures of our empty international shipping ports????????????

[SergeStorms]

47. Shipping.....

whether by rail or truck, is also slowing waaaaaay down. 6 months and this country will be at a standstill.

Thanks, Frumpty Trumpty! 🤨

[DENVERPOPS]

49. Surprise surprise

All the Corporations that backed Trump, and all his stupid voters, probably never heard of the "Laws of Un-intended Consequences"

[SergeStorms]

44. Bezos won't want to waste.....

the $1 million in "goodwill" that he bought with his indulgence donation to Trump's inauguration.

That's couch cushion money to him now, but he might still faintly remember when money like that meant something.

[DENVERPOPS]

50. Doesn't matter

None of those Top Billionaires are smart enough to realize that they are still on the top of his shit list.........

[allegorical oracle]

52. Agree. Would term what we're enduring as a rolling fiasco storm. Inasmuch as djt is a

bottomless pit of greed, corruption, and cruel revenge, he'll never be satiated. He will drive on until he's exhausted, which suggests we have three-plus more years of his heartless gluttony to experience.

[Skittles]

59. I agree with this assessment

I gauge it from reactions I get from known Republicans in my life......ONLY WHEN IT DIRECTLY AFFECTS THEM will they truly care. Yes they call themselves CHRISTIAN and PRO-LIFE but they don't give a FUCK about "those people". And Cadet Bonespurs mobilizing our military against WE THE PEOPLE? Yeah, that SHOULD be a huge tipping point but really, as long as it's perceived to be only against THOSE PEOPLE, most repukes will not care.

[allegorical oracle]

60. Good point. When I think about it, every Repug I've known has always had a thing

about "those others." Have encountered it in churches, workplaces, even growing up in Fla., when the "others" were tourists. Never could figure it out.

[Skittles]

61. I swear, how do they even have the time to worry about so many people

the list is so long - Dems, LGBTQ, feminists, immigrants, agnostics, etc.

[mopinko]

8. ppl, pls go listen to the show. pleeease. for one thing, u will love it.

u cant sum up even 1 segment of a tal show in a couple graphs and do it any kind of justice.
if u have never listened, welcome to radio genius.

i remember this episode. no spoilers, but the next segment is called ‘squirrel cop’. hit the can 1st, cuz u may pee your pants laughing. probably the funniest 13 min of radio since fibber mcgee’s closet.
but u rly shd listen. in fact, imma listen again, even tho i’ve heard it a few times. he is not using the word fiasco lightly here.

eg, i think u r right. i think if we arent at fiasco stage yet, we will b very, very soon. and i cant wait.

srsly, ppl. go listen.

[planetc]

28. Dear God! I understood your whole post, and I don't text at all.

[DENVERPOPS]

33. FIASCO????

We are approaching the Apocalypse...............

Two Sadistic Psychopaths with a button controlling entire Nuclear Arsenals.....enough to destroy the entire Universe, not just planet Earth......

[yellow dahlia]

63. I coined the phrase Trumpocalypse in the Fall of 2016 - little did I know.

It was about two months before the 2016 election. I was at a friend's house. The property included a lot of land. He had started building another house on the property for one of his children. I (jokingy) said: What - are you preparing for the Trumpocalypse?

At the time it felt like a joke, because no one thought he would "win".

Little did we know what he was capable of. I reflected on that comment occasionally in his first term, and it seemed profound as we go hit with a pandemic. And now - look where we are. Not a joke.

[DENVERPOPS]

66. Awesome!!!!!

You should use it around here a lot.........

[yellow dahlia]

67. I've heard some pundits use it recently.

So I'm not the only one w/ the thought.

Don't we wish we never had such thoughts...or supposed jokes....

[NJCher]

70. I heard the show when

It aired originally. Since then, several other times.

You can’t understand “fiasco” and this post unless you do.

[mopinko]

71. esp

the role of laughter in a fiasco.

[Baitball Blogger]

9. Just want to point out that Hillary Clinton was laughing since Trump's inaugural.

One of the first to recognize the absurdity.

[planetc]

29. And I seceded from the country the day after the election.

[Sneederbunk]

13. We have been at fiasco level since November 5, 2024.

[KPN]

14. I can only hope you are onto something with this Earl! It does seem possible, and more so daily. So, let's all

dive in and give it a nudge.

[orangecrush]

15. Love TAL and Ira.

Good analogy.

I'm a radio person, to the point of having a ham license, and I go out of my way to be able to hear this program on local NPR on Saturdays. (Reruns now, I think?)

I still mourn "Car Talk".

[mopinko]

36. i dont listen to radio like i used to.

used to have wbez on all day. i’ve loved this show since it was called ‘the wild room’, and featured linda barry. i feel like i know ira. it’s been like watching the neighbor kid grow up.

[orangecrush]

37. I am listening to CFZM 740 A.M. out of Toronto

They were analyzing election results earlier.

[Jedi Guy]

20. I prefer to think of Trump's administration as a soup sandwich.

The amusing image it brings to mind takes the edge off the daily drumbeat of evil, buffoonery, and evil buffoonery.

[WestMichRad]

21. The nature of the government's fiasco is of course quite different.

We’ve seen them axing jobs Willy-nilly, backtracking on some obvious screwups but leaving others in place, offending allies, and so on. Their list of evil acts is depressingly long as we all know. It’s already a fiasco as they proceed with trashing the federal government, and they plan to continue until it’s fully demolished. And then they’ll double down on propaganda that it’s all a beautiful plan and they’ll campaign strenuously that reversing course would be the real disaster.

But one dissimilarity to the Peter Pan play: the entire audience won’t turn on them. The hardcore magats, nazis and poorly educated will continue to soak up their messaging and support them to the bitter end.

(Can you tell I’m pessimistic?)

[erronis]

45. Just like the audience in Cabaret. The Nazi soldiers enjoyed the schtick but the real people understood.

[Martin68]

22. We hit fiasco level the day Trump was elected. And it's been downhill ever since.

[GusBob]

23. I dont think so

For many reasons, a couple of which are
--the monied class has too much control
--the media is a fail
--too many folks either believe his lies or just shrug his lying off

we are in the frog in the pot that's not boiling yet stage

There are some good books on the subject from a larger point of view by Malcolm Gladwell==The tipping Point and Th revenge of The Tipping Point

[BaronChocula]

24. Fiasco is like recession

You don't know you're in it for sure until a month or two after you got there.

[erronis]

46. Simple and true.

The frogs realize it when their skin and muscles start sloughing off....

[NH Ethylene]

25. That's really interesting.

In our case, a portion of the audience has a vested interest in the play's success. Like maybe local businesses who promoted the play, or parents with children in the play, etc. At what point do THOSE people start jeering along with the crowd (if ever?).

If the stakes were not so dizzyingly high, this would be a fascinating social experiment.

[marble falls]

26. Very nice piece, EarlG!

The episode that describes D.O.G.E in action

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/510/fiasco-2013/act-three-4

[Tom Dyer]

27. I realize this OP was to point out the danger here,

but I can’t tell you how many Brawny paper towels I went through laughing at these stories.

[highplainsdem]

30. Great comparison! And it goes so well with that poll I posted this morning showing how many

now view Trump as a dangerous dictator.

[robbob]

34. Bookmarking to listen to later

I love This American Life!

[Cosmocat]

35. Sadly this country is weapons grade stupid

Rs have been gaslighting this country for going on half a decade and the country has continued to indulge their bs relentlessly.

The last time Rs had this country in flames was W lying us into Iraq and their enabling of banks trading useless mortgages leading to the great recession.

That resulted in a big win for BHO and Ds getting control of both the senate and house.

Then what happened?

The very next election the country decided to give Rs the biggest mid term win in our lives and ushered countless "Tea Party" loons because Ds had the temerity to put THE REPUBLICAN version of health care reform into law, which not one single R voted for was made into the greatest threat in history to democracy.

Even now, the democratic party is viewed about the same as DT, cause literally every time they open their mouths they say how grotesque liberals are.

The problem is they spend more time negging the Ds than anything else because it works. It keeps their 1/3 in a constant state of loathing toward Ds and the "middle" 1/3 thinking "they are both the same."

So, yeah, DT and company will continue to drive the country over the cliff and it may be bad enough that they take a hit in these next midterms (assuming there is a legit election).

But, like it always does this country will indulge what ever lunacy they counter with.

[Dem4life1970]

38. I haven't seen Fiasco, but recently...

I watched the movie "Idiocracy." It is definitely life imitating art right now.

[Magoo48]

40. ,

This made me recall the decade of the 50s. The dramatic flash and roaring walls of destruction, with their ensuing, trademark mushroom clouds being observed by solemn men on conning towers and in bunkers, widely broadcast on television and movie news reels around the globe.
As the 50s rolled into the early 60s, the audience (humanity in this case) observed, with mouthes often agape, as the mistakes grew right along with the technology. The absurdity of it all became overwhelming and busted out in ridicule and rejection during the late 60s and early 70s, and those years then were marked by our citizenry's unrest while it frantically cast about to become an audience again.
Eventually, Jimmy Carter and Ronnie Raygun became sign posts at a fork in the road where our sliver of recently reassembled audience chose wrong.

[malaise]

41. Profound

Rec

[peggysue2]

48. Mockery and laughter can be an effective, even lethal weapon against puffed-up egos

Agent Orange has no capacity to roll with any sort of criticism, let alone the humiliation of unrelenting mockery. Even now, he's threatening investigations into polling companies because his numbers are headed into the toilet.

If we take this fiasco lesson and meld it with Governor Pritzker's call for fighting everywhere, every day and all at once, we'll have a tool to batter the senses out of the MAGA movement and offer up another Pritzker suggestion:

Give them no peace.

Trump and his acolytes take themselves very seriously, even though they're clowns and misfits. Let's start mocking them and their craziness into oblivion.

Everywhere, Every day and All at Once.

[Clouds Passing]

51. Yep fiasco, chaos, melee.....

[et tu]

53. well past fiasco

we are in deep doo doo

[mcar]

54. This is such a good comparison

Seeing an NPR poll today where 45% give FOTUS an "F" grade.

[bluestateboomer]

55. Very Funny

That episode is one of the funniest radio shows I have ever heard. I couldn't stop laughing. I just wish I could laugh as hard at the Orange Fiasco plaguing our country right now.

[lastlib]

57. Hell, we passed "fiasco" two months ago......

I'm looking to see what's next after "catastrophe".....

[DallasNE]

58. The Evidence Is Everywhere

The west coast photos of empty shipyards. The UPS announcement they are slashing.20,000 jobs just because of Amazon. That can’t be put back together overnight. And there snowball effects. Recession will start in June 2025.

[yellow dahlia]

65. I still hold out hope that a series of events could trigger a paradigm shift

for some of the traitorous RepubliCONS. They can join the Dems and stop the bleeding, and take back Article 1 and Separation of Powers, if only a few of them find some courage.

What level of fiasco will it take?

Thanks for the interesting reference.

[RainCaster]

69. "fiasco" is too kind for TSF

Cluster f&$k is a more accurate phrase for what Trump is doing.
Other phrases include:
Shit show
Fecal farce
Diarrhea demonstration

[SleeplessinSoCal]

72. found the episode

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/699/fiasco