52 seconds - Solicitor Sauer tells Kavanaugh there's no plan to enforce Birthright Citizenship changes

[underpants]

In a wild moment at the Supreme Court just now, Trump Solicitor General John Sauer admits to Justice Brett Kavanaugh that Trump has no idea how to actually enforce his birthright citizenship order.

Link to tweet

?s=46&t=3VBm1LJ8j8qLp6JTs_8J2A

[pandr32]

1. Or how it could exclude four of his brood.

[UniqueUserName]

9. Nobody anywhere is saying that a person born to a US Citizen anywhere is not a citizen by birth. . .

. . .or to remove the negatives. . .

In all instances, a person born to a US citizen, regardless of place of birth, is eligible to claim US citizenship. This is the case currently and has not been proposed to be changed (at least I am unaware of any serious challenge to that position).

If I am understanding your statement, your contention is that Trump's children would not be US citizens by birth because of their mother's citizenship. That is not the case.

Furthermore, if a pregnant woman who is a citizen has a child in any other country, regardless of the citizenship of the father, the child is a US citizen. If the mother is living overseas, she registers the birth of her child through the US consulate in that country as a US citizen born abroad.

I'm curious. Did you not know that?

[Arazi]

10. Trump issued an EO on Jan 20th rescinding birthright citizenship

From lawful residents of the US. As far as I know Ivana Trump was never a citizen (and neither was Melania iirc when she had Barron).

Several rightwing groups are now fighting to enforce it. So far several circuit courts have prevented that enforcement with injunctions.

The circuit courts’ use of these injunctions is what was being argued before SCOTUS today.

https://www.aila.org/library/president-trump-signs-executive-order-protecting-the-meaning-and-value-of-american-citizenship

On 1/20/25, President Trump issued Executive Order (EO) 14160 denying citizenship to persons born from a mother who was unlawfully present in the United States and the father was not a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident (LPR) at the time of said person’s birth, or when that person’s mother’s presence in the United States at the time of said person’s birth was lawful but temporary (such as, but not limited to, visiting the United States under the auspices of the Visa Waiver Program or visiting on a student, work, or tourist visa) and the father was not a U.S. citizen or LPR at the time of said person’s birth. (90 FR 8449, 1/29/25)

Executive Order 14160 of January 20, 2025

Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship

[LauraInLA]

11. But that EO refers to cases when neither parent is a citizen. That doesn't apply to Trump's children.

[Arazi]

12. Were Ivana and Melania citizens when their children were born?

Tbh I don’t know (or care much) about them. I’m
more concerned with poor mothers and fathers who came in legally or seeking asylum who now have American citizen kids whose citizenship could be stripped.

Are they stateless now? Especially if their parents are deported to a third country like El Salvador, Libya, or the Congo?

[LauraInLA]

13. Trump was a citizen, so his kids are citizens regardless of their mothers' status. I don't care about them, either,

but I think it’s incorrect to try to use this as a flex. And like you, my concern is for the children who will be born here and denied the birthright citizenship enshrined in the Constitution.

[James48]

24. How do you know Trump is the father?

Last edited Thu May 15, 2025, 09:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Do you require, in addition to Mom’s “proof of here legally”, Also require a paternity test for every newborn?

Sounds both expensive, AND threatening - as most states assume the person they are married to is the father.
If the woman must prove she is here legally, isn’t the man gong to be required to prove he is the father?

Now- let’s complicate it further. What if it’s two Moms?

Who has to prove what in that case?

It is unworkable and dangerous. That’s why 32 countries have absolute birth right citizenship regardless of parents citisensgip, and 33 others have at least one arehrvis enough.

It’s settled law. Leave it alone. Follow the Constitution.

[Crunchy Frog]

26. I'm pretty sure that legally, the woman's husband

is presumed to be the father without regard to paternity tests.

At least that's the case with child support following a divorce.

[LauraInLA]

31. Ah, that's a good question ;)

[Arazi]

27. Yes agreed and thanks for the clarification

[RobinA]

14. For Me This Raises The Question

as to whether there's an official "list" of citizens. I mean, where am I noted as officially a citizen? Did someone check to make sure one or both of my parents was a citizen? How does anyone know I'm a citizen? How do I know I'm a citizen? I speak American English, therefore I must be a citizen? If someone walked up to me and asked for my "papers, " I have no papers. I have a passport, but I never had one until I was 50.

[Hekate]

15. I'm curious. Have you been keeping up with trump's hundreds of EOs? On the one hand, he's an idiot...

On the other hand, the authors of Project 2025 are not idiots. Musk’s motto was “Move fast and break things” and while he is more or less gone, that might as well be the motto of those who remain. They keep chipping away at our foundations, chipping away.

[UniqueUserName]

18. Well I haven't been keeping up with them "all", You have?

For the record, I think the administration is horrible, but misrepresenting what they are doing does not do anyone favors.

If we were in normal times, it is reasonable to question whether a foreign citizen should be able to fly into the US, have a baby, and claim that that baby should be a US citizen. I don't suspect that that happens often. My guess would be that "anchor babies" as a term could be applied to the very rich and very poor. I don't know.

I would suspect that most reasonably comfortable women from abroad who were well into their pregnancies would not want to travel to the US if they thought the baby was imminently due. Our healthcare system sucks.

Ideologically, I feel that people should be able to cross borders at least as easily as capital. As far as I know, most countries do attempt to control capital from leeching from within their borders. I believe that the wealthy are able to circumvent many of those controls.

There are citizenship cases that do seem interesting. Suppose a US citizen marries a foreign national while living abroad and adopts a minor child of that person. If they divorce, or the foreign spouse dies, what happens with the citizenship of the child? What if the child reaches the age of majority in the mean time? I don't know what happens.

I don't support a fascist. I don't support THE fascist. But misinformation is not helpful.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. Birth tourism to the US is a thing.

I've read about it especially with regard to wealthy russian women wanting their kid to have dual citizenship.

https://apnews.com/general-news-travel-161a0db2666044dc8d42932edd9b9ce6

[Trueblue1968]

20. My MIL was born in Canada. She was not a US citizen when hubby & sister were born

He was born in California. His dad was a citizen. Would he and his sister have to move to Canada under DonOLD Rumps law ???

[UniqueUserName]

23. IANAL (I am not a lawyer), but according to my reading your husband is fine.

I only know of my case. I am a US citizen. I was born abroad to my mother, a US citizen. At the time of my birth, my father was not a US citizen. My father was naturalized when I was about 12. I have always been a US citizen. My mother registered my birth as a US citizen born abroad. I have a US passport.

The minor children who lived across from us in the US were foreign born to legal residents. When both of their parents became naturalized, the two minor children were automatically naturalized. One child, who was, I believe 16, had to be naturalized. This was early 70s. The procedures may have changed. Only the older child had to be naturalized.

My oldest sister, who was also born abroad was older than the oldest neighbor child (I hope I'm being clear). My oldest sister did not have to be naturalized. She was born a US citizen due to my mother's status as a citizen. It works for either parents. If I'm reading post 10 correctly, even under the EO, children born to LPR(lawfully permitted residents) are still elligible for US citizenship.

I did not watch or listen to the new deliberation. According to MsToad's post below, maybe Kavanaugh has introduced some arguments questioning status of LPR children births and single parent citizenship?? It is unclear to me what that post means.

[sdfernando]

32. I personally am an example of this...although at the time the process was a bit different.

Both my parents U.S. citizens all their lives...born in a small town in Texas. Dad was in the Army and was stationed in Dachau Germany. I was born in the military hospital in Munich.....BUT the hospital was NOT on a military base, it was in the actual city of Munich, not U.S. property, not an embassy or consulate...it was sovereign German territory. My birth was of course registered with Germany...and about 6 months later my birth was registered at the U.S. consulate. I have those registration documents, but they DO NOT have the words "Birth Certificate" anywhere. Just "Registration of Birth"....and I have U.S. Naturalization papers...which means I'm not a natural born U.S. citizen....at least at the time it did. Interpretations have changed over time...the hubub about John McCain being born in Panama is an example as well.

[UniqueUserName]

35. I always thought that it meant I wasn't a natural born citizen too, but

. . .when they determined Cruz was a natural born citizen, I understood that applied to us as well, We did not have to be naturalized, QED, we are natural born citizens ---which makes sense.

The language is a bit ambiguous. (the 14th amendment) If you are born here, you are a citizen, but it does make sense that you are a natural born citizen by being born to a citizen in good standing. I had no problems obtaining my passport using my registration of US Citizen born abroad.

This site lists requirements to President. Requirements include being a natural born citizen and living within the US for 14 years.

[pandr32]

36. I was responding to the last line...

“Trump has no idea how to enforce…”
He wants to be able to change birthright citizenship status of children of migrants.

[Nasruddin]

19. Or, under the right circumstances

Himself

[Lovie777]

2. If I don't believe that bullshit....

🙀

[ananda]

3. Like I said before: whim of iron.

In his now completely demented pea brain,
every little thought becomes policy, and
all the people who are supposed to enforce
it are incompetent idiots.

[sop]

4. Having no idea how to actually do something has never stopped Trump from doing stupid shit.

[0rganism]

5. No plan yet, but given the opportunity they'll come up with something half-assed and demonstrably cruel on the fly

The core constituency requires bread of idiocy and circuses of malice for their continued sanguine distracted ignorance, so these things will be provided.

Should the courts enable the administration's continued arrogant treasonous petulance, expect the eventual "solution" to involve "AI" from Altman or Musk.

[Arazi]

6. Unfortunately this hearing isn't dealing with the actual birthright issue

Traitor issued his EO on birthright citizenship and several circuit courts have issued “universal” injunctions against it (meaning it can’t be enforced anywhere in the US).

DOJ has appealed to SCOTUS to strike down universal injunctions. That this is about birthright citizenship is adjacent to their sneaky ploy.

By most accounts, it sounds like there’s 5 votes to end circuit courts’ ability to issue universal injunctions. Kegger Kav, Thomas, Alito, Roberts and Gorsuch (who in fairness sounded wobbly).

This will mean a circuit court’s injunction will only pertain to their district - meaning a patchwork of birthright citizenship will ensue (like the effect Dobbs has had on abortion). Injunctions against Traitor’s EO will need to move up the court levels one by one (again) and will only reach SCOTUS when there’s a discrepancy between circuit courts.

Only then will they have a hearing on birthright citizenship. It’s a mess and could take years while we have a patchwork system of citizenship nationwide

[underpants]

8. Thanks.

[Deminpenn]

21. All those universal injunctions by the RWNJs by

the 5th Circuit in cases brought by rw Rs will go poof, then, too.

[Arazi]

30. Definitely a double edged sword

[mobeau69]

7. Sauer

[Ms. Toad]

16. What an odd exchange.

If the court determines birthright citizenship does not extend to all infants born in the US, it isn't up to the hospitals to sort that out. It is up to the courts.

It is an argument against this interpretation, however, since birth within the United States has meant citizenship (at least since we decided blacks were human ). So to prove citizenship, you present your birth certificate. Currently there are some exceptions where you need to reach beyond the face of the document - birth to US citizens born abroad, for example. Those are handled on a case by case basis.

This creates a massive new case-by-case issue: If you were born in the US, what date were you born (the EO has an effective date for children born after a certain date). If you were born after that date, were both of your parents citizens (proof of citizenship for two additional people). If only one was a citizen, what was the status of the other (not only proof of citizenship, but proof of legal status . Kavanaugh may have (unwittingly) thrown the current administration a powerful weapon. For every child born in the US after the date cited in the EO, citizenship cannot be presumed simply based on location of birth. That is a logistical nightmare, not for hospitals (birth certificates don't generally list citizenship of the child, let alone the parents - nor do they have the ability to do more than record the response the parents give).

And - it poses a unique challenge for children like my daughter conceived by donor insemination. Although she has found the donor, it is an impossibility for most in her situation. So many children of rape, one-night stands, donor insemination, in vitro fertilization will not know the citizenship/legal status of the father.

[underpants]

17. Great post. Very complicated

[yonder]

22. ...

[slightlv]

25. Magas can't see beyond black and white...

therefore, anything to do with women, reproduction, sex, birth, etc. is a black and white situation. In vitro fertilization? That's one of those gray areas they really don't acknowledge.

[steelyboo]

28. By God, Kegger Kavanaugh might of had his "Moment of Clarity"!

[Initech]

33. Uh oh. Independent thought alert. He'll have to explain his actions on Hannity tonight.

[tanyev]

34. Wait, you mean shitposting on Truth Social with the words "I hereby order"

in front of it doesn’t magically make it happen???