This was the longest shutdown ever. The fact that it went this long shows immense fight from our party.

[Eko]

The republicans did what they always do, they gave us dilemmas, not problems. Problems can be fixed, a dilemma cant because the only solutions are bad solutions. The fact that it went this well for us for so long is amazing. If you want to blame someone don't blame the ones that kept the fight up, blame the ones that caved.

[Jersey Devil]

1. Bullshit!

That won't work this time.

[orangecrush]

5. Same

[leftstreet]

22. Same

[hamsterjill]

29. Thank you!!! I get SO SICK of bad decisions by Dems just being 'explained' away all the time.

This is a disaster for the Democratic party any way you look at it. I'm sick of coming onto DU and every freaking bad behavior being explained away. Oh, it's strategy, etc., etc. Yada. Yada. Yada.

It's just caving in YET AGAIN to the bully Republicans and makes Democrats look weak. Voters will see the weakness and Americans (as a whole) like strong leaders.

Every poster on here "explaining it all away" needs to take a look at what Newsom is saying. Are these posters really smarter and/or better informed than he is? I don't think so.

He and Pritzker are the ONLY ones who seem to truly understand what it is that we are fighting against. The typical norms certainly do not work any more. Democrats should never have started this if they weren't going to finish it.

[Cirsium]

52. Agreed

I don't think it will work this time.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

2. And yet, Chuckie and Company still capitulated and gave the repigs what they wanted.

So, what's next on the agenda for these Nazi fucks?
The elimination of Medicare?
The elimination of SNAP?
The elimination of Social Security?
Give these Nazis an inch, they'll take a mile.

[FHRRK]

3. What should happen is Chuckie loses his leadership

By the end of the week.

[dem4decades]

6. Nancy was a leader, Chuck is a disappointment.

It's there anyone that has the guts to lead the minority?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

7. I couldn't agree with you more.

I would like to see AOC take the reins of the Democratic Party and start taking it to these criminal fucks.

[Eko]

8. Seriously? Chuck Schumer voted against it.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

12. Chuckie only voted against it because he already knew that the votes were there to pass the CR

and his vote wouldn't matter.
This was about, IMHO, preserving Chuckies, spot.

[Eko]

15. How do you know that?

Was that reported? Or is that just what you think?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

23. That's what I think and, quite truthfully, I think this is spot on.

Why else would he screw Dems?

[Eko]

33. By voting no?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

38. Apparently you didn't understand my previous posts, so, I'll say more slowly,

H e a l r e a d y k n e w h e h a t h e v o t e s t o p a s s t h e C R s o h e k n e w h i s no v o t e w a s s a f e.
Is that slow enough?

[Eko]

40. I understand your previous posts and this one makes about as much sense as the previous ones do.

1. Chuck Schumer risked a lot by keeping the government closed for the longest time ever. It was always a chance that the majority of Americans would be upset by this and it would backfire on our party.
Then your view,
2. Chuck Schumer caved for no reason at all even though he still voted to keep it closed. This with public opinion on our side to keep it closed and the Democratic party just won historic elections.
That makes sense to you?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

42. Ok, I now understand what you are saying,

but the bottom line is the Sen. Schumer, IMHO, already knew who was going to vote for the CR and knew his voting no would be meaningless, he did what most pols do, he voted to enhance his creds.

[Eko]

43. And all his other no votes?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

44. I'm not talking about his other votes,

when the rubber hit the road, IMHO, he came up short.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it, you may have another opinion, and I respect that while disagreeing with it.

[Maru Kitteh]

24. Is he just so ineffectual as a leader that he didn't know or couldn't hold the line?

How is that better?

[Eko]

28. I dont think anyone could have done that.

We had too many dilemmas, let them hurt health care, let them hurt hungry people, let them eff up flying, there were just too many harms going on and they (reps) didn't give a shit. I Thought we should hold but unfortunately 8 dems did not.

[hamsterjill]

35. So, don't you think this is just going to embolden the Republicans????

How in the hell does giving into a bully not make the bully believe that he can just ask for more concessions the next time?

Because of THIS, people are going to be a whole lot MORE hurt, MORE sick and there will be MORE issues flying. Not to mention everything else that the Republicans will think they can get away with now.

There is no excuse for Democrats giving in. They should not have started this if they weren't going to finish it.

[Eko]

36. I agree. I am not with the 8 dems that voted to open this.

I wanted to keep it closed but I am also proud of what the other dems did.

[hamsterjill]

39. Yeah, the other Dems can't control what the eight did.

That just shows that we don't have a unified party. Go, figure.

[Eko]

41. ITs been common to refer to the Democratic party as a buch of cats.

[Cirsium]

57. Exactly

That is why they all needed to stand together. Kicking the can down the road will only lead to more suffering.

[Cirsium]

56. That is how it works

It happens all of the time.

[Cirsium]

55. For show

A leader knows how many votes are needed and which Senators can afford politically to vote with the Republicans, and which ones need to appear to be opposed to the Republicans. That happens all of the time. If, on the other hand, a leader does not know that, then they should not be in leadership.

[dem4decades]

4. The Republicans don't have to blow up the filibuster, we'll cave.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

9. Exactly!!! nt

[herding cats]

10. I cannot believe what I'm reading here.

Do you people not realize what's at stake here?!

It's actual people's lives. Literally, people, lots of us, are going to die.

I cannot not believe the level of I've got mine, or we can't bear the inconvenience any longer, I'm reading here.

[Eko]

11. Yes I do realize.

In no way am I saying that the 8 democratic senators vote was right, I am against it 100%. I'm saying that the other Democratic Senators put up a phenomenal fight!

[herding cats]

48. You see this as a dilemma?

This isn't a dilemma, it's literally a death sentence. I can see how calling such merely a "dilemma" makes it feel less horrifying but it in no way reduces the sentence inflicted on those sentenced to die.

It's not just the 8 who voted for this, it's the lack of leadership which made them feel safe doing so. The Republicans hold their line and the Democrats are too weak to stand up as a force against this atrocious gutting of the ACA. This is our legacy.

This is a bridge too far for this loyal, lifetime politically active Democrat.

[Eko]

49. What? no. The repubs gave us a dilemma.

A dilemma is
a situation that requires a choice between two or more options that are equally undesirable or problematic.

We keep the government closed and people go hungry, dont get paid, essential services are not done.
We relent and tons of people lose health care and it goes up for most.
There was no good option there for the Democratic party. That is why it was not a problem. A problem can be solved, with a dilemma no matter what you do the outcomes are bad.
You say the Democrats are weak yet we held the longest shutdown ever, longer than any party.
I would say if the bridge is too far you didnt understand that we had always lost the bridge. What was important was to fight as long as we could. And we did. Historically long.
I'm sorry if you thought we were going to win this.
The only thing that would have made the republicans cave in was public pressure.
And they just dont give a fuck. President and all.
We fought for a historically long time. Some of us caved eventually.
They caved to a dilemma.
There werent any good solutions there.
But I will support those who didnt cave, cause they fought hard.
And those that didnt,
Well,,

[herding cats]

50. I die.

Lots of people like myself will die.

How did that get lost in your diatribe? It's not a difficult statement yet it's being treated like kryptonite.

People aren't getting paychecks! Important!!

People are having their SNAP withheld! Important!!

Healthcare is being held hostage for tens of millions of Americans. Oh, sorry, you gotta die because this is too hard for the Democratic Party to manage. People are suffering, don't ya, know?

Do none of you hear what's being said here?

[Eko]

54. My mom had cancer. Not long after the ACA was passed.

It kept her alive for 5 more years. No way she could have afforded that in any way.
That didn't get lost in my diatribe at all.
I understand on a very personal level.
Whats more important, health care or food?
I cant answer that question.
Cause its a dilemma.
If a kid is starving are you going to offer it health care or food?
If a mom is dying of cancer are you going to offer her food or health care?

[herding cats]

59. I gave food. Lots and lots of it.

No one can give me healthcare. Let's not be fools and pretend otherwise. It costs hundreds of thousands a year to keep a cancer patient alive per year due to our fucked up healthcare.

I emptied my pantry and donated enough food for dozens of people for weeks.

How does that compare?

[Eko]

60. With what?

[herding cats]

62. Are you not reading your own word?

It kept her alive for 5 more years. No way she could have afforded that in any way.
That didn't get lost in my diatribe at all.
I understand on a very personal level.
Whats more important, health care or food?
I cant answer that question.
Cause its a dilemma.
If a kid is starving are you going to offer it health care or food?
If a mom is dying of cancer are you going to offer her food or health care?

I answered you.

You're not genuine. I'm out.

[Eko]

63. How does what compare?

That the aca kept her alive for 5 years and you gave food away?
Sorry I'm pretty sure you did not make yourself clear. If you are out because of that then fine.
Be out.

[herding cats]

64. You know what

Death is death and in my case I'll live longer without food than my meds. But that never should be a choice! We should never be that shallow as humans.

What the hell is wrong with you?! This isn't even a philosophical question. All people matter, or at least they should.

[Eko]

65. In no way did I ever say that people not getting health care is right.

Jesus, if you looked at my facebook page I'm raging about it all the time. I think the ACA is one of the best things we have and that we should have kept the expanded subsidies. You keep thinking that I am saying that is alright because I am proud of the work our Democratic reps have done. They fought a fight that they couldnt win and they did it for longer than anyone else has with the shutdown.
The ones that caved, whatever.
The ones that fought a historic fight for this? I got their back.

[herding cats]

66. Good for you.

I plan to burn them to the ground with my death.

[Eko]

67. Can I help?

The first part of course.

[herding cats]

68. You want to help me burn them to the ground?

I reached out to ProPublica and the NYT. I'm hoping someone bites.

[iemanja]

17. Then why fight at all?

Why hold out all this time to accomplish nothing?

[Eko]

18. Because it was right to do so.

[iemanja]

25. But it's not right now?

They showed Trump that they will bend to his will. That’s what you call the right thing.

[Eko]

30. I thought it was, 8 dems did not.

8 dems! It sucks but the rest of the Dems did a historical fight!! They fought hard and we should be proud of that.

[Cirsium]

58. Those lives

Those lives are not safe in the hands of the Republicans. Compromising with the Republicans puts those lives into their hands.

[TheFarseer]

13. Really disappointing that we went through this

And in the end it was for no purpose.

[dem4decades]

20. The Republicans will say all the pain was for our political gain.

Hard to argue against that, we got nothing in return for all the hardships the country endured.

[iemanja]

14. What difference did it make holding out?

What are you celebrating?

[Eko]

16. The fact that we fought so hard and so long.

[iemanja]

21. So nothing.

Thanks for affirming that.

[Eko]

31. Fighting is not nothing at all.

[Emile]

19. Trump is laughing his ass off!

[MarineCombatEngineer]

26. You just know he's going to spread this far and wide and he's right, Dems will capitulate every time

the history is there for all too see.

[fujiyamasan]

27. The shutdown really didn't effect most of us directly

Obamacare was supposed to be a democratic legacy. They’re throwing it away. A lot of people will be hurt, but maybe they deserve to at this point. I don’t really care anymore.

Negotiate better, maybe voters will respect you. I know now why democratic office holders hold no loyalty. They don’t really care about their constituents. It’s all a game and a joke.

[Jspur]

32. There is nothing to be proud of since it was

all for nothing. I know your going to say it was only 8 senators that caved but there is a fundamental problem now with the Democratic party which is that it's clear they are owned by corporate donors. There is always a spoiler within the Democratic party that sabotages them whether it's Mancin, Sinema, or somebody else. There is no doubt in my mind if those 8 senators didn't sell out then donors would have found some other 8 who were willing to sell out at the right price.

[yaesu]

34. LOL, after we got sold out i needed a good laugh, thank you

[hatrack]

37. WTF?

Oh, and WTI - I don't need any more of your "thoughts" going forward.

[Eko]

47. So then block me, I could care less. Here I am telling us all to be proud of what we did do that was historic

and you are?,,,,,,,,,,

[Happy Hoosier]

45. Cope.

That is some grade A cope.

[fujiyamasan]

61. Yep, basically breathing in Trump farts and saying a scented candle

[NoRethugFriends]

46. Enough of the bullshit.

[Cirsium]

51. "shows"

"Shows" is the operative word, as in performative.

I am certain that every Democrat in the Senate knew how this was going to go. The only question was which Senators could most afford to cave without too much political consequence.

[FHRRK]

53. And for the foreseeable future

The Repubs get the talking point that Dems shutdown the Govt in 25 for no reason.

This was a complete, thorough and epic Fuck Up!