Newsom didn't do anyone any favors by blowing up at the European leaders

[bigtree]

...and like all macho displays in response to political challenges, the governor's ranting contained more heat than light.

Newsom torches ‘pathetic’ European leaders for bowing to Trump: ‘I should’ve brought kneepads’

California Governor Gavin Newsom tore into “pathetic” and “embarrassing” European allies for how they are responding to U.S. President Donald Trump, accusing them of “rolling over” as the White House upends NATO in its pursuit of control of Greenland from Denmark.

“I can’t take this complicity. People rolling over. I should have bought a bunch of knee pads for all the world leaders,” Newsom, a Democrat and potential candidate for the presidency in 2028, told reporters at the World Economic Forum‘s annual gathering in Davos.

He added: “I hope people understand how pathetic they look on the world stage, at least from an American perspective. It’s embarrassing.”

“I’ve seen this in the United States, the supine Congress. It’s time to stand tall and strong, stand united”.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/gavin-newsom-european-leaders-pathetic-171337182.html


“This guy is a wrecking ball. I hope people are waking up to what we are dealing with. This is code red,” Newsom continued.

“You guys are still playing by an old set of rules, everybody in the globe is, with this guy. He’s unmoored. It’s the law of the jungle. It’s the rule of Don, and I hope it’s dawning on the world what we’re up against. This is serious. This guy is—he’s not mad, he’s very intentional. But he’s unmoored and he’s unhinged.”

The Democrat also accused leaders of saying different things in public and in private about Trump. “Everybody’s talking behind his back. They’re laughing at him. Meanwhile, they’re sucking up to him. It’s embarrassing…This is not diplomacy, it’s stupidity,” Newsom said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gavin-newsom-slams-pathetic-us-allies-over-donald-trump/ar-AA1UA51y

...while it's nice to see someone standing up to Trump, it has to be bemusing for the European leaders to see the governor bashing them for something that is rapidly spinning out of control in his own country, ignoring their own individual interests are just as rapidly turning away from America because of our voters' insistence in again elevating Trump back onto the world stage.

It's not the Europeans' responsibility to bring Trump to heel; not as much as they are charged with looking after their own interests; and now they're turning away from decades of cooperation on concerns which the U.S. is rapidly abandoning support for, both materially and rhetorically under Trump.

They can reasonably ask where they can rely on America right now for anything other than the inevitability of some arbitrary punitive action directed at them at the point of Trump's latest pique.

They don't need to growl at Trump or beat their chests like teenagers in a school fight. They have democracies which will determine whether negotiation or fighting makes sense to their interests.

And certainly on this world stage, at this world economic summit, cooperation between nations is meant to take precedent over the internecine squabbling that Trump would like everyone else to descend into while picking over the rubble he's caused.

Gov. Newsom should be careful imagining the Europeans don't know how to take care of themselves in the face of autocratic figureheads pushing their weight around. Their people know how to take to the streets to demand the changes they want; less so here in the States, albeit learning.

But more than that obviation, Europeans must have had their fill of Americans talking down to them right now, their countryfolk now at the mercy of political outcomes which Newsom and others in America have failed to effectively manage among our own people.

Personally, I've long had my fill of macho politics that substitutes volume for effect or substance.

If Newsom wants Europeans to do something more to confront Trump; if he has specific ideas beyond being 'tall and strong;' he should spell those out more succinctly than the full-throated deriding he offered them today for practicing diplomacy at a diplomatic forum - do the work of diplomacy with our European allies so that we can all as he admonished, "stand united."

[BannonsLiver]

1. Yeah he needs to be more weak and ineffectual like Merrick Garland.

Imagine defending a federalist society republican stooge to the death while criticizing a Dem leader who dares to speak up about an insane tyrant. I’ve seen it all. 🙄

[LR3]

3. Yup, par for the course

What Dems really need is more caution and timidity

[Dave says]

50. Um, no

More caution, maybe. More timidity? No f’ing way!! We need to amplify what’s right and drown out what is wrong.

[sheshe2]

2. You are absolutely right.

[newdeal2]

4. Appeasement didn't work out too well for Europe in the 1930's

Why didn’t Germany take care of their own problem?

[brer cat]

5. I was disturbed when I heard him earlier today.

Talking down to people is not a good look, especially those already slammed by trump.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

6. He didn't "blow up"

And he was addressing the press, not European leaders.

You can see and hear him for yourself.

?si=z6FjBW-veSzKj4e5


Thanks to TexasTowelie:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1322103359


This knee jerk Dem hate is really getting old.

[TheProle]

12. So he didn't say...

“I can’t take this complicity. People rolling over. I should have bought a bunch of knee pads for all the world leaders” ?

[Skittles]

15. Newsom is right

NO ONE should be bending the knee to that fucking tyrant - NO ONE

[TheProle]

16. That wasn't my question to the previous poster, but noted.

The previous poster said that Newsom was addressing the press and the quote says "world leaders." Not in a position to watch vids right now, so just looking for confirmation of facts.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

94. He was addressing the press.

[TheProle]

102. Not arguing anymore

Here's the video. Go to :45 seconds in. He damn well directs it at "world leaders" and not the press.

There's digging in your heels to control the narrative and then there's just self-delusion.

[peggysue2]

68. Mark Carney appears to be the only leader who truly gets it

You do not bow or bend or kiss ass when its comes to Agent Orange. When reasonable suggestions fail, you make your own way without regret or apology because Trump is an unreliable and totally dishonest broker.

PM Carney knows that as do nearly all Canadians. Carney has been blunt and tells the truth, a Kryptonite move for Don-the-Con.

Newsom is clearly frustrated with European leaders who still try to appease, cajole or think reason has a place in the Trump Universe.

They do not.

Smaller democracies may think that by staying silent they'll avoid Trump's wrath and vicious demands.

They will not.

Donald Trump and his sycophants are attempting to overturn the World Order, all international law and a Western Alliance that has kept the world relatively safe since World War II.

It's a hair-on-fire moment for all of us, Americans and Europeans alike.

Newsom has seen the danger up close and personal. You may not like his style but that was a clear warning, a Paul Revere outburst, made by a Governor on the inside who's been fighting this maniac from the start.

There's no time to be offended or pretend diplomatic niceties are going to save the day.

We're way past that.

[Kingofalldems]

33. Right on time.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

93. What do you mean?

I didn't say anything about that.

He was addressing the press.

[BannonsLiver]

13. + 1. If I were casting a remake of The Darkest Hour starring DUers I know who would be playing Lord Halifax.

[IcyPeas]

20. Thanks for the video

Newsom and every other rational American are fed up with trump. He's robbing us blind. He is most likely a pedophile of the worst kind. He's declared war on American cities and that doesn't look like it's stopping any time soon with all the money being poured into it.

Everyone does talk behind his back. The emperor wears no clothes.... until someone says it out loud.

I wish and hope more leaders would speak up. We hear often that dems can't do anything because we're the minority blah blah blah... but leaders have voices. The press are useless. The words don't have to be perfect but somebody has to start saying out loud what we're all thinking..

[MorbidButterflyTat]

95. You're welcome, and I agree with you.

I found the video on a post by TexasTowelie:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1322103359

Who deserves kudos.

[bigtree]

23. i'm a considered writer, not a kneejerk poster, and I always make the effort to be clear

...as I have in the op.

I don't know what you're calling 'Dem hate' but I can assure you that I don't have a modicum of hatred for Gavin Newsom, so I'm not going to spend time on that.

I've enjoyed a long enough life that I've been privileged to bring my support to each and every Dem nominee for president, and in my district and state, as well.

In those instances, I often find myself sprinting far ahead of most of the Democratic debate over their fitness or efficacy of their candidacy; looking behind and seeing not the actual opposition tearing them down, but our own professed Democrats creating drag on them.

If this fellow runs for president (I don't vote in Ca,), and I think that's what you;re getting at here, you won't find a stronger supporter when he's nominated, and I won't drag him to the ground with complaints about him being 'weak' on something or the other, or grind down on his messaging.

I don't think he did that effort any favors, and, that's what I'm getting at. he's not a candidate, but if he's seeking my vote in a primary race that's likely to have an expansive field, maybe he could demonstrate the professionalism and diplomacy that I expect from my president in publicly relating what he wants to other leaders around the world, especially our allies.

That's the leadership that I expect and have grown fond of in my decades of this.

We live in a world where the U.S.'s success has been greatly enhanced by our ability to not only forge good cooperative relationships with other nations, but our respect for their own ability to make those decisions for themselves, whether or not they want to have those relationships with us.

Although Gov. Newsom gave their sovereignty lip service after berating them, he did so with the assumption that European leaders had an obligation to stand with a California governor whose country doesn't seem to have it's sit together enough to even save his own state from Trump yet, admittedly, despite how 'tall and strong' he's decidedly been in opposition.

Newsom hasn't yet figured out how to stop Trump, any more than leaders who aren't in any way a part of the solution to removing him from power. He has a Dem dominated state with a solid, workable Dem majority. He can't assume everyone else can just muscle their way through this crisis.

What's wrong with just leaving it at speaking his mind to those leaders, and not coming out and deriding them at the same time Trump is attacking them from the other side? Wouldn't it be more effective to continue to appeal to them in private, instead of trying to emasculate them in this forum?

I got the sense here that Newsom is on a learning curve, and it's frankly surprising to see him come forth with a response that's so scolding and condescending. I'd think he'd realize Europeans have had more than enough of that kind of arrogance from the U.S. already, and would offer a different face to allies who'v been treated as doormats lately, despite their past sacrifices for this country.

I mean, he's not actually the boss of them.

[cachukis]

28. European parliaments have frank discussion, at

Last edited Thu Jan 22, 2026, 07:32 PM - Edit history (1)

least from what I have seen. I have been in a few pubs and taverns where offense is a challenge for riposte or rebuttal.
The Eurpoeans need a calling out. They have been milking our largesse while we have been reaping financial rewards. Trump has played this well.
The Eurpopeans have been exposed, but we have had the best of it. Trump has brought this to a head.
The symbiosis is unraveling. It has been good while it lasted. The pax romana inevitably ends.
Not sure this will turn out well.
Regardless, I suspect American comeuppance has been awaited by the world.
We'll see how well our oligarchs manage our needs.
Not particularly confident watching oligarchs elsewhere.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

96. Nothing personal

I've seen too many knee jerk reactions on DU to things Democrats supposedly did or didn't, say or do.

Newsom didn't blow up at European leaders. He was speaking clearly to the press.

I do appreciate your posts, and most times I agree with you. I just don't this time.

Peace.

[creon]

53. He did not

He said what needed to be said

[Greg_In_SF]

7. If he is planning to

run for President, he needs to act more professional.

[Bettie]

72. Right....because the other party is

just brimming with professionalism and civility.

[Greg_In_SF]

85. You're right

and Newsom is lowering himself to their level.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

97. There is nothing remotely MAGAt about Gavin Newsom

[Torchlight]

101. Quite the ironic assertions

[Starbeach]

8. Non-ugly American

He at least represents American disgust with Trump. But this is a thoughtful post.

[creon]

9. not even wrong

full stop

[Skittles]

18. THANK YOU

WTF, NO ONE SHOULD BEND THE KNEE FOR DONALD FUCKING TRUMP

[cachukis]

10. We are always in transition. Trump has spoiled the

media with gish gallop entertainment. The world is consumed; all of us. Newsome is a response.
We are not going back to what we have experienced as normal.
Who in America can appeal to the entertained American so inured to the last ten years of trump?
Newsome has a piece of the stage and now our scrutiny from a past era.
We aren't going back.
Can he manage? He is cutting his teeth unlike many others. He is trying to manage the great divide of voters and annoying many of us on the left.
But the leftists want radical change and the Bernie's and AOC's want to stretch and pull us to social liberal world view.
Newsome is making us all think. He sees the trans issue as polarizing. He is right. He sees a billionaire tax as disruptive to the California economy. He is right.
He is calling out the appeasement in the European Union. He is right.
Will he refine his argument and presentation? At least he is presenting a standard to which we will all compare.
Good for democracy, no?

[IcyPeas]

22. Agree

Read my response #20

Reminds me of the quote "speak your mind even if your voice shakes"

[leftstreet]

11. DURec

[fujiyamasan]

14. Sorry he's absolutely right

Trump can’t be negotiated with in good faith. He recognizes nothing but strength and a show of force. It doesn’t have to be physical but they definitely need to buck up and show resolve.

Many European leaders have kicked these security concerns down the road for decades, with little to show in terms of a unified military and hardly any domestic energy supplies. They have already been victims of Putin (who they similarly tried to appease). Trump is bullying them because he can.

Newsom is sounding a warning. Hopefully they’ll listen.

[boston bean]

17. I would say he is right. It's a fucking embarassment from all corners. Not excusing any US politician.

But Europe can also not be his doormat. It should be said. This is how we fight to win. Pull the cloak of weakness back.

[Raine]

19. Totally agree with you. nt

[Renew Deal]

21. Newsom is right. And Europe consistently looks weak.

Europe thought they could play along. They are just realizing that the world they thought they left behind is back and has been since at least 2022.

[haele]

30. Europe looks weak because they're dealing with internal issues

Last edited Tue Jan 20, 2026, 08:32 PM - Edit history (1)

And got lulled by Biden's US policy and economics trying to help everyone dig themselves out of COVID.
It's going to hurt them bad to stand up no matter if they kneeled to the Project 2025 clowns first, or turn their backs on the US, and they know it.
This is a pull off the bandaid too early quickly or slowly situation, and the EU, at the very least, needs to quickly figure it out as one voice instead of 1/3 of the EU flipping the bird to *Rump, 1/3 dithering around because of, well, investments and their own billionaire boi clubs - with the final third remaining quiet because they were going to follow the majority no matter what was decided.
Dithering makes it worse.
The Billionaire elites and resource Oligarchs can't sustain their own wealth and luxury once they start crashing the economy. And it's going to be a hard empire ending crash; too much money is separated from real assets and based on speculation.
Rich people honestly think working people trying to keep from dying off will happily stop rebuilding effort for themselves and their families or communities - for otherwise worthless inflated money instead of something tangible.

On edit, why does autocorrect think lulled is not a word?

[TimeToGo]

35. What do you mean by

“And got killed by Biden's US policy and economics trying to help everyone dig themselves out of COVID.“

[haele]

36. Sorry, typing on my phone, will correct the stupid

Autocorrect I'm always having to turn off.

[TimeToGo]

40. 😎 We've all been there

[Fiendish Thingy]

24. I couldn't agree more

Personally, I've long had my fill of macho politics that substitutes volume for effect or substance.

That nails it right there.

[GoodRaisin]

25. He's right though.

[themaguffin]

26. Maybe. I think that they get it.

[LonePirate]

27. I'm on Newsom's side here. The entire world needs to be more vocal in their stances against Trump.

They need to stop fellating him as Newsom implied.

[Irish_Dem]

29. Hell no. TIME TO KICK SOME ASS.

Time for being sweet, nice, and sending letters to be totally over.

[anciano]

31. "Nice guys finish last." Leo Durocher

[Qutzupalotl]

58. ..in bed.

[kimbutgar]

32. I voted for him for governor but I'd rather have someone else as President

He is too bothsiderism !

[Escape]

34. I support Newsom's remarks and attitude 100%..

More please, from every other Democrat in the country.

We are at WAR. We can't pretend it's a debate, a difference of opinion or a time for diplomacy.

The world is very angry at the United States...and they should be. We need to let them know that WE are just as angry.

Newsom '28!

[Emile]

37. Wondering what European leaders think of America voters.

[Chalco]

38. I find nothing wrong with what he said. nt

[ancianita]

39. Newsom is right about the complicity of the world's superrich. He's doing his part. I don't see any other Democratic

leader over in Davos doing any better. Do you? Nope.

Don't start chipping away at perfectly good Democratic leaders just because they're not perfect.

Newsom is the leader of the 4th largest economy on the planet. If what he thinks and says isn't good enough for you, just know that you're not helping the Democratic cause.

[bigtree]

46. how is this fellow the 'Democratic cause? '

...I didn't vote for him.

And, btw, I support EVERY Democratic nominee like my own kin, but people have a lot of nerve expecting fealty to one potential candidate right now in what should be an expansive field of hopefuls in that future election.

Trump's belittling the European leaders like he doesn't live in a glass house, and here comes the Democratic governor of California acting as if he doesn't live here too.

Do you really think the Europeans really care that a Democratic governor is scolding them about their inability to control Trump, any more than Newsom's 'tall and strong' stuff has controlled him so far?

The Europeans can't remove him from office, and they should be loath to do anything that hurts their own interests now that the U.S. has all but abandoned any pretense of cooperation or care for European concerns and is insisting that the world revolve around America.

This paternalism that pretends that the U.S. doesn't need Europe more than they need us is dangerous revisionism. It's the U.S. who is isolating itself away from being able to advance our own interests; the Trump regime now reduced to bullying them, as they're too arrogant to treat them as allies instead of obstacles and do the actual work of diplomacy.

What I can't understand is why the governor thought it was a good idea to come out of what he said were private discussions and betray those confidences, instead of just contiuning to press them behind the scenes to do whatever he wanted.

Is this an example of his foreign policy approach - talking down to and treating foreign allies like he's their boss? I mean, he was at a diplomatic conference complaining about diplomacy being practiced by people who have more experience with autocratic regimes than a Ca. governor.

He's sitting on a workable Democratic majority in his state, making all of his excellent actions in that state behind a Democratic legislature, and his behaving as if everyone else has that political advantage.

It's the same with the attacks on Democrats here at home who have none of the advantages of a majority to do what Democrats naturally, reliably, and successfully do when they hold the most seats in the legislature.

It's just sophistry, really, with such a simple portrayal of the challenges to Europe, coupled with zero regard expressed for their OWN prerogatives. Hell, he didn't even bother to mention the pushback that we saw from several of the European leaders, and really demagogued their efforts to resist Trump, knowing little to nothing about the state of their respective nations' political affairs from his confortable seat in Cali.

European leaders aren't Trump, and they certainly aren't Trump supporters. They don't deserve to be talked down to by Americans who have foisted this cretin on the world with our own refusal to stand up to the bully. He walked all over California, even as the governor stood 'tall and strong.'

If he wants support for being the 'Democratic advantage' he needs to win the nomination for president. But in the interim, with so much at stake for me personally, I will not fail to speak my mind about what kind of leader I want to represent me, and no one should automatically assume that the Ca, governor speaks for me on everything that comes out of his mouth.

I do understand how challenging it is watching republicans bull their way through with their narrow majority; ignoring rules and laws as they consolidate their temporary power.

But the answer to all of that isn't to adopt the same autocratic attitude that assumes people can be cowed into doing what we want. The principles of coalition-building and cooperation still apply.

Newsom or any other politician is going to find it's like spitting in the wind trying to put things back in order by dictating down to the people they intend to lead. That machismo is a myth that assumes leaders do the heavy lifting, instead of the people they govern.

It's one thing to stand up to enemies, and yet another to generate the cooperation from allies that is essential to accomplishing more than just domination and control. It's not something new, it's a basic formula for dealing with our neighbors like friends and not just opportunities for us to advantage our own country.

One thing that has been distressing to me is the way that our politics has devolved into these false, zero-sum calculations that treat humans in the way of politics as abstract obstacles.

It's a recipe for chaos and anarchy, and makes is all ripe for domination by someone completely oblivious to what the people want, who thinks we should be fighting their personal battles instead of tending to our own needs.

I said above that the governor seems to be on a learning curve. I'd hope one of the first things he gets right is that he'll need to do more than merely communicate what he wants to the people he intends to lead, and that he learns to form coalitions of support behind his ideals and initiatives among people who aren't in his immediate orbit and influence.

[ancianita]

48. Thanks for your usual thoughtful post. Much appreciated. I want to point out that he is frustrated, because

he supports a minority at the federal level which isn't as powerful as he is as governor of the 4th largest economy (therefore rightfully at Davos), and again, is frustrated that
-- by the felon contemptuously abdicating the international order, and
-- Western allies being passive in the face of that and threats to their safety,
he doesn't hear the kind of fight from them that both he and we back home have waged against the felon's reckless lawless damage has done to our relatively stable democratic economy, harming the American people.

I think he needs to let them know that while they are shifting into an offensive posture, they should still be on the side of the American people, 77% of whom did not and have never voted GOP. . He says, "from an American perspective... It's time to stand united." When he says to them "This is diplomacy? Trump's a T-Rex, you mate with him or he devours you." ... he's sharing an image of what we've experienced in the U.S.

I didn't say Newsom is the Democratic cause. I say the Democratic cause in the sense that Newsom himself backs the Democratic cause that we back, which is aligned with causes of democratic states of the EU.
Our common Democratic cause is fostering economic growth, social justice, opportunity, freedom through responsive government;
advocating for policies like workers' rights, environmental protection, healthcare access, and civil rights -- all that while balancing economic interests with social progress to create an inclusive society where all individuals can thrive. Historically, this includes New Deal-era social programs that built modern production and trade that historically helped our allies on many levels.
So, imo, backing Newsom helps the Democratic cause. Not criticizing his criticisms of other leaders doesn't.

I've read your other posts in the thread -- but just not until after I'd given my opinion of your op's criticism, is all.
The op triggered in me my own frustration with those a) who've been quick to baselessly criticize any Democratic leader when they don't say or do what we think best, or b) who act as if any one mistake or decision is make-or-break in trust. California has a lot of international trade agreements. These people know Newsom. His opinion matters in world affairs. He's not a diplomat. He's a significant world trade leader. If one comment goes viral where he wants more from allied leaders, I'm seeing that he's honest with journalists in criticizing those leaders for being way too passive by not reining in their own global oligarchs who cozy up to the felon "with crowns and prizes."

[NotHardly]

41. Nothing worse than mealy mouthed apologists & critics of courage

[OGBuzz]

42. Not a good look for Newsom.

I'm a big Newsom fan but this rant about European complicity and offering to bring knee pads was not his best moment. How about complicity in Washington and throughout America? Start there, your own back yard. Trump is in charge of the largest military and the largest economy on the planet and Europe is understandably afraid. Europe didn't elect this lunatic nor did they grant him the total and ultimate powers of a king.

[GusBob]

43. Hmmm

And how would one compare this to todays performance by Trump I wonder?

[BadgerKid]

44. Would giving specifics be viewed as treason? n/t

[JonAndKatePlusABird]

45. Meh, when you lead an economy as large as California's, you get to say certain things

I consider it tough love. If European leaders are such shrinking violets that this offends them, no wonder people like Trump see them as bumps in front of a steamroller.

[bigtree]

47. I doubt they cared at this point beyond bemusement

...which is much more damning that reacting to it.

[Arthur_Frain]

49. Sorry, I'm sick and tired of meek capitulation.

IMHO, it’s time for a little “scorched earth” response. If GN is the guy that’s going to give that to them, I’m behind him 100%.

Obama’s “high road” netted us fuck all.

[markodochartaigh]

51. Well, The High Road

allowed some a few more rounds of high tea in their Ivory Towers.

[bigtree]

62. our votes for Obama kept the Democrats in control of the WH for EIGHT YEARS

...that's the game, not this backbiting nonsense that seeks to tear down the party.

What fucked us all is how some Democrats took the last invitation by ratfuckers like Solomon to dissemble the gains we'd made and blow up the presidency.

I'm surprised, after the last losss they helped engineer that anyone is still listening to their claptrap.

[crimycarny]

52. Yes--I felt it was a bit over the top with the "knee pads" and "pathetic" being thrown around

When I saw that, on the one hand, I agreed with the frustration, but on the other hand, I kind of cringed. And I am a HUGE fan of Gavin and the way he is fighting back here at home. However, I don't think it was so over the top that it'll be headline news for weeks.

I think Andy Beshear handled that question more diplomatically, while not coming off as weak or timid. Andy kept the focus on bashing Trump, which I felt was a smarter approach.

Maybe Gavin can take note and tweak his responses a bit.

NOTE: DU'er senseandsensibility highlighted Andy Beshear's response in an earlier post. Here is a video of it.

?si=vxLY7aOWx0Vf5YJ-

[tritsofme]

54. Newsom was right on substance but still made a strategic error.

Diplomats and world leaders are not domestic political actors and do not react as such, he should not expect them to and should not have publicly excoriated them.

Further alienation of our European allies is not what we need from a potential future president.

[Sugarcoated]

55. I like the fire

I don't think it's a bad look. Just my 2 cents.

[DJ Synikus Makisimus]

56. No one whose judgment included marrying Kimberley Guilfoyle

should be anywhere near the nuclear trigger. I'm sure Gavin generated lots of hits on his social media, though, and made bank bigly on the commercials featuring other "influencers." Newsom is the star of his own TV show, and he has a bright future as a game show host.

[markodochartaigh]

57. I disagree with some points, agree with others, and just plain don't

know how things will play out. But I'm more than happy to recommend this post for the effort which went into it as well as the level of discussion which it has elicited.

For what it's worth, I think that we are too focused on the incorrect target. As sad as it is to believe that nuclear weapons, the world's largest military, and so much of the US economy is under the thumb of someone as compromised on every level as Trump, I don't think that he is the root of the problem. In fact, I see him now as the Republican party's biggest problem. I think that he should be allowed to tear their party apart. The US' authoritarian problem came from the right and it will have to be solved by having a non-authoritarian right wing solution. To be viable a democracy must have at least two viable parties committed to democracy and the US is one party short. Unfortunately a moderate left wing party and a progressive left wing party would only split the vote allowing the right wing party to win. Eventually the electorate might be educated and engaged enough to fight the right wing party, but we are not there now nor will we be soon enough. Nevertheless, an ignorant and apathetic electorate got us here and I think that this is one target which we must focus on immediately.

Another target is our oiligarchs. They are as much the reason that we are losing our democracy as the electorate. Reining them in, if it is possible, will cause extreme short-term damage to the economy and stock market. But they have proven that they are enemies of democracy. If Europe does use its trade bazooka it could be a start to reining them in. It might be possible to get enough Republicans on board if all of the Democratic members of Congress stuck together to craft legislation here.
Leaving Trump to thrash and trash the Republican party will do incredible damage to the US and our institutions. But I think that if he were replaced now by a polished authoritarian more acceptable to the corporate Republicans, and still acceptable to the maga base, the damage would be worse. It took half a century to get rid of Franco. Several African countries and North Korea still have authoritarian Strong Leaders.

[Jack Valentino]

59. I think this is a load of CRAP, to criticize one of the few Democratic Party leaders

who have the courage and are willing to take Trump on, in his own ballpark....


I realize this is an article that you reposted,
but I would not have chosen to repost it here and now...

[bigtree]

60. so

...you didn't even bother to address what I wrote.

Just boosting ONE possible candidate for president three years from now and acting as if I should regard him as my leader just by virtue of his ambition and his party affiliation. I support EVERY Democratic NOMINEE for president. That contest has yet to occur.

If you bother to read what I wrote... if he has the leadership skills that enable him to do more than just tell us all what to do, and will bother to listen, I believe I've provided not only advice he can use, but made clear what I want in a candidate for president.

The nerve of anyone assuming I should give fealty to someone because of en election in three years and stifle myself... it is an amazing way to address or regard people you apparently want to support this man.

What is this thing with bullying people, acting as if Newsom or any other politician should be treated like the boss of anyone they intend to represent? Talk about in-kind politics. This is ridiculous.

[Jack Valentino]

89. '...and like all macho displays in response to political challenges, the OP's response contained more heat than light'

and perhaps my initial response was likewise----

but here you put a bunch of words into my mouth which I never said
nor meant to imply---- seems like sort of a 'macho display in response to a political challenge'!


Here's a newsflash for you: I am NOT committed to Newsom for 2028 nor any other candidate,
nor did I or do I "demand fealty" to any potential Democratic candidate from anyone else---

and I WAS responding to your initial personal comment paraphrased in the subject line
of this reply---- which is what set me off a little---

And you are right--- I think I 'hit reply' to that first comment in particular
without even seeing the balance of your comments at the bottom of your post,
which frankly go a little over my head-- I was not informed about Newsom's public comments there....

Your points may be quite valid, now that I've actually read them,
or at least worthy of discussion which is beyond me now, as well as last night...


I hope you will forgive my 'knee-jerk reaction' to this post---
you are actually among my favorite posters on DU,
but the words of your initial comment preceding the posting of the article excerpt
just hit me 'the wrong way'...

Nerves are pretty frayed right now, as I presume you will understand....

[bigtree]

92. it would be a different discussion if it centered on what I wrote in the op

...and not on defending Newsom as a political figure which I have absolutely no objection to, and actually support his efforts, so far.

But I may have been naive in being deliberately obtuse to presidential politics to think I could have a discussion about American politicians and other U.S. leaders and the way they talk to the Europeans. I couldn't have been more explanatory, though.

I get that people see what they want, but it's been mostly unsatisfying to my effort in the op, to defend myself against the absurd (for anyone that knows me) that I threaten Newsom politically by criticizing him, or threaten something Democratic as some posters intimated.

"I think this is a load of CRAP, to criticize one of the few Democratic Party leaders..."

Does this really make sense to you three years out from an election where there is bound to be an expansive field of candidates? How will we ever distinguish between them if we don't express our disagreements?

And, hell, I was nice enough. I would think that alone deserved some attention to the subject (Newsom or any other American pol's attitude and approach to communicating their differences wth our allies?

Here I was thinking the substance of what I wrote was just ignored because it may not be in folks' wheelhouse. I can see now that most of the criticism came down in defense of something that I actually agree with, his political viability.

I don't think posting here is campaigning, but I've been here since this forum concerned itself with much more than presidential politics, and posters challenged each other with ideas instead of their politics.

I can do both, but I prefer the latter.

Now, about liking me and the rest. I appreciate that, sincerely. I take the time to respond to you because of my regard for you, as well. I will endeavor to take more care to depersonalize my responses. It's how I'd like to be responded to, so that just makes sense.

[Jack Valentino]

98. Thank you, amigo.... My main fault on this forum has to be

some of my 'knee jerk responses'....

such as this one:
"I think this is a load of CRAP, to criticize one of the few Democratic Party leaders..."

and having moved more towards 'one-liners' responses,
when I used to be more of a 'writer'....


My reaction to your first line was only based upon the fact
that I admire Newsom for his extremely public mockery and
opposition to Trump--- while too many Democrats seem 'weak'
in this situation--

YEAH, this is still a long time away from the 2028 Democratic primary---
but I have been addicted to the 'long view' most of my life---
and although I am not yet committed to Gavin for that primary,
I confess that he is my favorite, at this point!---

((particularly because he seems to piss off Trump the MOST!))


Thank you for your thoughtful and empathetic response.
I will still look at you as a 'friend' regardless of any momentary disagreements!

[Blues Heron]

61. I stand with Gavin

“This guy is a wrecking ball. I hope people are waking up to what we are dealing with. This is code red,” Newsom continued.

It’s a global wake up call, this is not a time for timidity.

[ColoringFool]

63. 👍 👏 💯 🗣🔊

[bigtree]

65. why is he attacking the Europeans?

...they didn't put Trump in power and they have no way of removing him.

Their countryfolk set their priorities, not the governor of California.

Why didn't he bother to supprt any of the pushback we all saw from those same leaders he's claiming should be more effective at their opposition?

BERLIN (AP) — The eight European countries targeted by U.S. President Donald Trump for a 10% tariff for opposing American control of Greenland blasted the move Sunday, warning that his threats "undermine transatlantic relations and risk a dangerous downward spiral."

The joint statement by some of America's closest allies signaled a possible turning point in the recent tensions over sovereignty and security nearly 24 hours after Trump's threat.

It was also the most forceful rebuke of Trump from the European allies since he returned to the White House almost a year ago.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/european-leaders-warn-of-downward-spiral-as-trump-threatens-tariffs-over-greenland

...projecting insults is seldom as effective as doing the work of diplomacy, which Newsom looks to have sidestepped to launch this typical American top-down broadside at people we expect to be allies.

Why couldn't he just continue his appeals in private instead of blowing up at a diplomatic event because they're practicing diplomacy? It looked absurd.

[Blues Heron]

66. Did you read what he said? It's a wake up call.

It’s hardly an “attack” oh the drama though!

[bigtree]

67. did I read it?

...what kind of question is that?

That was the totality of his messaging at the event. His ranting against Europeans was all that he produced.

'Kneepads?' Where's the professionalism in that? It's not exactly presidential, and it's bullshit. European leaders managed to get out more criticism of Trump than he did at the event, because he was so fixated on the wrong target.

Newsom obviously talked to a few leaders and left those discussions to pop off to the press. Not exactly a good profile in building those relationships, something essential to any aspiring president.

I want less of the insults and more of the diplomacy that's kept us partners with the Europeans and helped keep us safe for some 80 years.

I can't believe the way people in this forum talk about them, like they talk about our own Democratic leaders, as if the critics are doing something magical and amazing by tearing their own leaders and allies down.

I want my leaders to build relationships abroad, not tear at them with bullying and insults. It's amazing to me that any American is still talking about some fault of Europe after our people allowed Trump back into the WH.

[Blues Heron]

70. Your overreacting , this is 2026- there is a new, less uptight electorate out there, the fuddy duddy era is over

[bigtree]

71. you're

...

[BannonsLiver]

73. This thread sure went south on you pretty quickly.

[Autumn]

64. I think Newsome was absolutely right. That is the problem with almost all politicians and so called leaders,

They are all still playing with rules that no longer are in effect. They are leaning on institutions and values that Trump and his asses have destroyed.

[Renew Deal]

69. We need more Gavin Newsoms and less tone police

The Gavin’s see the real danger. The tone police distracts from it.

[FHRRK]

74. Hmmm, disinvesting in the US

Did Newsom give Macron and others some support to fight back harder?

So why the condemnation of a fighter? No need to answer I have read your responses in this thread.

[bigtree]

75. no, what you wrote is specious

...and not evidenced in anything.

The hubris in imagining that Europeans needed bucking up by the California governor to confront the demon who was spawned in his own country; the threat that Americans have yet to hinder in any significant way, despite the governor standing 'tall and strong.'

It's always interesting to see how many people think problems can be solved by barking in public at them. I watched with bemusement at men lining up behind Kamala Harris who thought that raising their voice until they were hoarse was effectively communicating.

If he wants something from Europeans, anything, the way to accomplish that is how countless leaders have done successfully for over 80 years of alliances to keep the peace - by diplomacy.

Less of the predictable insults from Americans touting our supposed superiority over everything by virtue of our size, and more respect for the prerogative of nations to set their own course apart from what a California governor might think is best for them, for example..

Is there just this one gear with Newsom, his pique, or does he know what it means to influence and lead those who aren't in his immediate camp?

[FHRRK]

81. Let me give some general advice

Using three letters, IMO, IN MY OPINION, prior to disagreeing with someone on a discussion board is very easy and helpful. For example, “IMO your argument is specious…”

That way readers would be more likely to believe the argument was made in good faith rather than starting with the view point that the writer is pedantic blow hard who is unable listen and respect opposing views. IMO, the latter works best.

[bigtree]

82. it's already assumed in this format that respondants are positing their own opinions

...unless otherwise cited.

Some 'general advice' backatcha...

Why don't you go ahead and take that personal insult down before someone alerts on it and you get locked out of this thread. That would be unfortunate.

[FHRRK]

83. Again, IMO, people are looking for fighters

You have a different opinion. Not an attack, rather pointing out, as many others have opined on your OP, that Newsom and others tend to match and mirror Republican tactics.

You disagree and claimed my argument was specious, could be interpreted as a personal attack. In my attempt to hold a mirror to your comments I explained how other readers may and have viewed your responses.

I am very comfortable in stating the wide gap in white male votes for republicans are due to Dems not fighting back hard enough. Not the only reason, but a substantial reason.

For those white males who are offended, weren’t going to win thier vote anyway AND it motivates others who are strong supporters of Democrats.

[bigtree]

84. do you know what specious means? superficially plausible, but actually wrong

...in this case, it means that your assertion that I was criticizing a 'fighter' was superficially plausible, but actually wrong.

In no way was that a personal insult. It's a defense against your assertion that I was criticizing Newsom because he was a 'fighter.'

I was actually criticizing because he was crass and insulting in a forum and in a situation where I'd expect diplomacy to be predominate as a antidote to the coarseness that he nonetheless displayed.

What you wrote in response was unnecessary, beside the point I made, and just an unfortunate personalization. Don't put your posts at risk like that. You made your point without all of that, and message recieved.

[FHRRK]

86. For the love of all things holy

Here is the definition straight from Webster

specious
adjective
spe·​cious ˈspē-shəs
Synonyms of specious
1
: having a false look of truth or genuineness : SOPHISTIC
specious reasoning
2
: having deceptive attraction or allure
3
obsolete : SHOWY
speciously adverb
speciousness noun

I could argue you have a misunderstanding of the word, but that is not the point.

The main point I am trying to get across is some people want fighters, read the responses you have received. This thread also has 30 recs, so at least 30 DU members share your opinion.

Now I have read many responses that AOC or Crockett go too far on different occasions. I disagree! Have heard similar responses for years.

I look back at what I could have done going back to my twenties to make the US a better place. I should have fought harder, pissed more people off. The Reagan Repubs in college, should have called them ignorant asses and never let up.

So if someone gets upset, it happens. If someone is upset, try to see their side and apologize if needed.

With that, passive aggressive ain’t no way to ask for an apology.

[bigtree]

87. let me put it more plainly

...you lied about something you raised here, not me, about some disagreement I have with Newsom based on him being what you call a fighter.

You've made a selective representation of the word 'fighter,' in a machoistic characterization of Newsom's inartful presentation to reporters. It's something similar to what's infected politics - with projections of toughness that are more akin to television drama than the humble leadership we should expect from public servants.

Is this his only thing, his pique? Or is there something closer to actual leadership which understands how to coalesce and influence those outside of his inner circle?

You're representing his coarseness and vulgarity directed toward at Europeans as strength, but, I see it as a matter of volume and no effect. Frankly, it was embarrassing.

Where's the actual substance of what he's expecting from them, besides this nebulous jibe that supposes they're responsible for Trump?

It's the wrong fight. His concern should be in his own country, focused on the demon America foisted off on Europe's back; not blaming Europeans for that political failure of Americans.

He made an arrogant public assertion about the political affairs of countries he's in no position to know squat about, and he's lucky they mostly just ignored him.

They've been telling America that they're ready to wave us goodbye, and I'll bet there will be a lot of foot-stomping about that, as well, from the 'fighters.' Best of luck to them.

[FHRRK]

88. "I lied..."

I did nothing close, seems like you share a trait with The Orange Shitstain. That is rather than pondering another viewpoint you attack.

With that, IMO, you owe me an apology.

See how that works, rather than threatening a hide and asking for another DU member to alert, I used the direct approach. You claimed I lied, you’re wrong. (I so wanted to use “your” based on a comment above)

Another trait trump always uses, having others do the dirty work for him.

Anyway, no need to respond. I’m done responding and kicking your OP.

[bigtree]

90. did you tell the truth?

...you did not, and you persisted over my explanations.

You've falsely represented my opinion, or what I've written (hard to see inside your head), and substituted it with your own projections.

It's dishonest and particularly egregious coupled with your personal insults.

You've exhausted my comity.

[FHRRK]

91. Whew!

You've exhausted my comity

Good, I guess this circle jerk is over. Damn good thing because my right hand is getting tired!




Typing on phone so just using one hand. (In the interest of full disclosure)

[Sibelius Fan]

76. Bullshit. Newsom was brilliant. He's positioned himself as the anti-trump. Euro leaders want that.

[bigtree]

79. he also positioned himself as anti-European leader

...they hate that, unless you think they invited and welcomed his misinforming 'kneepad' vulgarity.

Is this an example of the approach to Europe we face under a president Newsom?

Top-down lectures to them about what's essentially an American responsibility?

[samsingh]

77. at least he's trying - which is a lot more than so many other leaders

[bigtree]

78. but that's not the issue I'm raising here

....whether he's 'at least' trying.

[CountAllVotes]

80. Newsom really fucked over the elderly and disabled

With his MediCal/Medicaid Partnership changes.

No word until he made a done deal out of it already.

It really screwed things up nicely for some of the people in the above two groups.

I will not forget!

[H2O Man]

99. Recommended.

I agree.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

103. K&R