do you think that life has different outcomes depending on choice or luck ? I think it is based on luck. I have watched

[debm55]

people with not a lick of smarts get great jobs because of who they knew.

[AZJonnie]

1. Given that 'luck' is not actually a real thing, my answer is 'anything but luck'.

[qazplm135]

7. Luck is chance

It's a real thing in that respect, but of course chance doesn't care about good or bad characterizations.

[AZJonnie]

8. To the extent that one uses the math/statistics based definition, yes, 'chance', aka 'probability' ... is real :)

Last edited Tue Jan 28, 2025, 10:44 PM - Edit history (1)

However neither chance nor luck describe 'forces' in any sense of that word. IOW, if one asserts that the 'reason' for literally anything happening is 'luck' ... that's just not to my way of thinking

[qazplm135]

9. It's all language

Cause can be a reason for something happening and yet there be no "reason" for something happening aka purpose or plan.

We have words that can mean multiple and disparate things like "reason."

[AZJonnie]

10. I mean "reason" here strictly as in "causal" :)

Allow me to illustrate if I may

Take a person who flips a coin 100 times and registers a list of heads and tails. "The Chance of Flipping Heads" is in no way directing the outcome on any given flip. Chance is antecedent to root causes, never causal of its own. The outcome of the tally actually depends on whether the person has learned consistency in matters like how hard they spin, which side starts positioned up or down, where their thumb was relative to the edge of the coin, how long they wait to catch it, etc. Had one trained, and been intentional in the outcome, most could learn to 'flip heads' very close to 100 times straight. In this case, physics, and training towards consistency, are the causes of whatever the tally is in the end. And there will 100% of the time BE a cause, for everything. But that is never "chance"

[qazplm135]

11. I don't believe I said anywhere

That chance or luck causes anything.

[AZJonnie]

12. I didn't mean to imply that you did

By it's wording the OP implies that luck can be the cause of things, I was making clear why I wrote what I first wrote in response, which could've been clearer. Plus, I'll take almost any distraction right now, so thanks

[qazplm135]

14. I don't think that's what they are saying

At it's base, they are talking about how life changes based on starting and intervening conditions, which you have no control of and boil down to chance or luck.

Are you born to rich parents or poor parents? Loving parents or distant or even abusive parents?
Are your parents anti gay and you're gay?
Does a parent die in your youth? Some other tragedy? Or does your family end up loving and happy?

A lot of these things aren't in your control as a child but they can fundamentally shape your path in life. Who you are. Your personality. Heck with epigenetics they can even affect your sexuality or other core parts of your personality or even health.

So from that perspective, I agree with the OP, fortune, chance, luck, whatever you want to call it has an affect on your life in profound ways. That's not meant to be taken as literally "luck" directs anything but that people who grew up say poor and with alcoholic parents like me, have more of a hill to climb than say someone with two well functioning loving parents. Or out another way, Obama and Trump had very different initial starting conditions and one played the game on super easy difficulty and one played it on hard mode.

[Clouds Passing]

2. It's all based on who you know not what you know.

[debm55]

5. Agree. nepotism, No matter how hard you work. If one doesn;t have the right ties, you really don;t have a chance.

[surrealAmerican]

3. Some of each, really.

But, yes, the greatest predictor of a child's future financial success is their parents' wealth.

[debm55]

6. Agree with you surrealAmerican.

[stopdiggin]

4. I think you have to allow that it is (most often) some combination ...

you probably also know people that have (more or less single-handedly) driven their own lives into the gutter - one bad decision after another.

[electric_blue68]

13. I think it's a mix. Some luck, good+ financial conditions in the family growing up, effort...

I do believe in luck to some degree, I believe excellent effort can get you places even without knowing people (not as easy often), knowing peoole does help, and good+ financial security certain plays a part.

Of course, as from current
#cough# example #cough#;
it doesn't buy you good character, nor expertise of your own!

Blargh!!!

[LogDog75]

15. Luck or choice?

I think it's more than just a binary situation. Think of any event in your life and then look at all the variables that lead up to making the event happen. For example, let's say you're going to a final job interview. It's between you and one other person. You show up on time and the other person is late because the bus the rode on was late. It turns out the other person is more qualified for the job but didn't get it because they were late to the interview.

So was it luck you got the job or was it a choice by the person(s) interviewing the candidates?

IMO, luck and choice rarely happen separately. I know in my life I've had a lot of luck because things happened that I had no knowledge of. I've made choices based on scant information that were correct. Who knows, maybe the outcomes in our lives if ust fate at work.