This message was self-deleted by its author

[Ken Burch]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Ken Burch) on Wed Nov 30, 2016, 12:33 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[BobbyDrake]

1. Now's the time for experience with House procedures, not another protest tantrum. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

31. This. nt

[David__77]

2. I hope they pick someone who can lead the caucus to achieve greater membership.

I don't know who that is.

[jfern]

3. Pelosi is pretty bad, but if you're going to replace her, at least find someone who isn't worse.

[Ken Burch]

4. Fair enough. I have no dog in this hunt, and don't know much about Ryan.

Have you heard bad things about the guy?

[dsc]

6. He was very anti choice until just a few years ago

and his record on gay rights is pretty bad as well. He has switched but it was fairly recently.

[Ken Burch]

7. Thanks for the information.

n/t.

[GoCubsGo]

5. Tim Ryan opposes Clinton joining the recount.

Just sayin'.

[Ken Burch]

8. Again, I have no personal favorite in this contest.

Appreciate the info.

[GoCubsGo]

10. Just pointing it out to those who are unaware of it.

[Ken Burch]

12. Thanks for that.

Ryan is largely an unknown quantity to anyone from outside his district.

[geek tragedy]

9. Party needs to break with "coastal elites" mentality

Nancy Pelosi is not the person to bring about that change.

[JI7]

11. was feingold a coastal elite ? how about trump ?

[emulatorloo]

13. Surprised you are jumping aboard the "Let's Purge Liberals" bandwagon.

[geek tragedy]

17. Not purging liberals, but those whose districts

are predominantly the 'winners' of globalization. Those who have been hurt don't really have a voice input congressional leadership.

And our party desperately needs younger leadership.

[emulatorloo]

18. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Yeah Pelosi's no spring chicken but she's tough, energetic, and she's a liberal. She's been a workhorse as Democratic House leader.

AFAIK only Republicans hate her, because she's so damn effective. Plus they can demonize "San Francisco Values" for their homophobic base.

Maybe a handful of DU'ers hate her too, but they tend to hate most every Democrat and liberal as well. (Counterpunch Syndrome)

[geek tragedy]

19. If we had the majority or even if the margin in the house were close

would be a different story. But we need a major shake up, which takes priority over leadership experience, which isn't terribly relevant right now (Democrats are irrelevant in the House).

[Midwestern Democrat]

21. I completely agree. The fact is the Democratic Party needs a major rebuild - a new strategy, a new

message, a new coalition - the coastal/urban centric coalition has been a failure. Even if we were to somehow have some spectacular midterm landslide fall into our laps, we'd quickly lose the majority again - look at the Republicans in 1946 and 1952 and the Democrats in 2006 - all were minority parties that were suddenly swept into power because the majority party got spanked - and they were just as quickly swept out of power again because they still had the same fundamental problems that had put them in the minority in the first place.

[emulatorloo]

30. Can you clarify this statement you made above?

I'm not clear on who you mean:

"Those who have been hurt don't really have a voice input congressional leadership."

Who are those who have been hurt? Voters? Other congressional Democrats?

Thanks - you know I value your opinion, thanks in advance.

[geek tragedy]

33. Those who have lost out due to changes in the economy

especially because of globalization and the shift to a service-based economy

[emulatorloo]

40. Voters have a voice on the direction of the congress on election day.

You write:

"Those who have been hurt (due to changes in the economy especially because of globalization and the shift to a service-based economy) don't really have a voice input congressional leadership."

Are you arguing that leadership positions in congress should be on the ballot and decided by popular vote on election day?

Thanks in advance

[geek tragedy]

41. not directly, but when our coalition is inadequate to win congressional majorities

all other duties pale in comparison to the need to expand that coalition.

[Demsrule86]

20. The 'hurt' leader would be in red states who have to worry about re-election and given a choice

between fighting Trump and save their own skin electorally would choose saving their skin. You need someone from a deep red state to fight everything...not someone who will give Trump faux victories.

[joshcryer]

24. Admittedly the vast majority of youngest congresspeople are Republicans.

(As well as state legislators.)

I'd rather the party head not be a conservadem / blue dog, tho.

[emulatorloo]

28. I'm getting lots of mixed messages from DU these days

I think there is a consensus that party needs to sharpen message and move left.

But then more middle of the road conservative Democrats get championed just because they are different.

Recent example of this was DU's championing of Tulsi Gabbard as a progressive. Despite her fairly conservative record.

[geek tragedy]

34. The general consensus is that what we're doing is not working, and needs to change.

But, what is the direction of that change? that's where there's disagreement

[joshcryer]

37. I'm lost.

I feel like we've entered the twilight zone.

Throw out the core of the base, minorities, immigrants, women, etc, and appeal to white "working class" males.

We've been countering this logic for years. But somehow now we have to embrace it.

The messed up part is that they've been pushing this for years, and I've always seen the appeal, I just dismissed it. It's also counter intuitive because I have supported Democrats like John Bel Edwards (peo-life guy in the most pro-life state, common sense). And support, in respect, Heidi Heitkamp, a pro fracking / oil Dem, who many would vilify as not a Democrat because she's in ND and they like oil there.

It's so damn confusing. My belief is that we should support Democrats that represent their states. But we are lost, supporting whoever, for whatever reason. No logic to it whatsoever.

Bah on Tulsi Gabbard, though she will probably run in 2024, and win. (I don't see her challenging Trump in 2020.)

[Ken Burch]

42. NO ONE is saying we should throw out the base, OR stop fighting institutional bigotry

The actual argument is that we need to deal with economic justice issues more strongly. There is no conflict between addressing those issues and continuing to oppose social oppression.

The people behind the claim that there's a call to throw out the base are the ones whose agenda is mainly to make sure that we don't adopt any policies that might offend our corporate donors...never mind that corporate money did us no good at all this year.

They are using the false claim that some of us want to throw people of color, women, or LGBTQ people "under the bus" to try to block any change in tactics or emphasis in this party.

The truth is that we are ALL committed to keeping(and in many cases strengthening) the anti-oppression agenda. It's just that some of us want to address the economic uncertainties that give demagogues like Trump a way to seduce voters that we should be able to get.

[Demsrule86]

14. It is a bad idea to put Tim Ryan

in charge...Ohio went for Trump in a big way...can't have someone who has to worry about re-election as speaker...he won't fight Trump...and he is not a liberal. Ryan is my congressperson and is a good guy, but...

[Ken Burch]

16. Thanks for the information.

n/t.

[emulatorloo]

15. FWIW Americans for Democratic Action (liberal group) gave Pelosi a 95% "liberal quotient" ranking

And Tim Ryan an 80% "liberal quotient" ranking based on 20 key votes in 2015.

Here's a link to their website:

adaction.org

Here's a link to their 2015 Voting Records ranking, which explains their methodology and lists the rankings of all congresspersons by state.

http://www.adaction.org/media/votingrecords/2015.pdf

[joshcryer]

23. That the "most liberal" Dem site on the net...

...has a 40% vote for the conservative Dem, convinces me we're so screwed.

[joshcryer]

22. Tim Ryan is a conservadem / blue dog

I am amazed by the support for him, though.

I'm not enthused by Pelosi, but she's a liberal in every sense of the word.

[LP2K12]

25. I think Pelosi has done well,

but new blood is required. I don't think Ryan is the answer.

[still_one]

26. you probably should identify it as Tim Ryan, so no one confuses it with you know who

[Ken Burch]

35. I wondered about that. Have now changed it.

n/t.

[still_one]

36. I was kind of kidding around Ken, but hopefully there is no here who would even

look favorably on the one named "paul"

[Ken Burch]

38. And I'm fairly sure you aren't allowed to lead the majority and the minority at the same time.

But it would be scary as hell if the OTHER Ryan was getting 30% in this poll.

[still_one]

39. LOL, yes it would be scary

[Renew Deal]

27. Not Pelosi

[Proud Liberal Dem]

29. I think that change might be good

BUT I'm not convinced yet that Ryan is the answer. Anybody else challenging Pelosi?

[BlueProgressive]

32. I heard Tim Ryan on Fox News Sunday saying that the Democrats

'can no longer claim to be a national party' or something to that effect (while channel flipping)

To say that in that venue completely lost me. I don't want to hear his name again.

[Ken Burch]

43. Since Pelosi has now been re-elected leader, I am self-deleting this poll.

n/t.