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MBS

(9,688 posts)
13. I also was in disbelief after that debate
Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:53 AM
Oct 2012

Here's the best analysis I've read ... apparently from a lawyer.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/04/1139793/-Mitt-Romney-Lying-to-victory). . search in comments for "maybe but" (title) or commentator (kulta1)


With no moderator of any ability to, well, moderate, and with Mitt's pathological skills at lying, what would have ended up is a he said/he said back and forth which would have accomplished nothing and would have more than likely hurt Obama more because, to put it simply, people expected that of Mittens but not of Obama. There was absolutely no way in this debate circumstance for that moment when Romney would say "you got me" (verbally or otherwise) because Romney is lacking that gene most people have called shame. Sometimes you win by "losing" and sometimes you lose by "winning". This in many respects was the latter, or at least I think Obama saw it that way. It is, I think, not the way he wanted it to go, but he's always someone who plays the hand he's dealt.

Some of my best trials have been against the smartest, toughest adversaries mainly because they raise my game and it's about substance. My worst have been against adversaries who, frankly, were not at my level but who I did not respect. I see that in Obama...he just cannot hide it when he doesn't respect or believe in his opponent. And that lack of respect (or whatever you want to call it) leads him to lack his mojo.

yes, there was no Bain, 47% etc. but here's why IMO: it's already baked into the meme; and rule #1 in any adversarial situation (especially where it's not an advantageous one, like this one with a bad moderator): you never ever give your opponent another chance to clean up if you don't have to, because he just might do it. Bringing up those topics in this setting was something Romney was salivating to have happen.

He made no major errors. He hit his points. He was overwhelmingly still seen as more empathetic and likeable, many of MItt's statements will come back to bite him, and Mitt's style will fall flat at the town hall setting and at the debate on foreign affairs.
Would I have liked him to rip Romney's head off (verbally?) Yes, but I never expected it, and for the long game it is not worth it. Plus, he is not good at it

. . . Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 07:03:47 AM PDT



see also this morning's NYT, which is pretty much aligned with that lawyer's commentary
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/08/us/politics/biden-up-next-obamas-aides-plot-comeback.html?hp

Here's an excerpt , with mentions of Sen. Kerry

On the conference call convened by aides in Denver and Chicago even as the candidates were still on stage, there was no debate in the Obama campaign about the debate. None of the advisers fooled themselves into thinking it was anything but a disaster. Instead, they scrambled for ways to recover. . .
Like other presidents, Mr. Obama’s debate preparations were hindered by his day job, his practice sessions often canceled or truncated because of events, advisers said. One session took place just after he addressed a service for the four Americans slain in Libya, leaving him distracted.
. . . .
Mr. Obama does not like debates to begin with, aides have long said, viewing them as media-driven gamesmanship. . . . Mr. Obama made clear to advisers that he was not happy about debating Mr. Romney, whom he views with disdain. It was something to endure, rather than an opportunity, aides said.

Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts was recruited to play Mr. Romney. The preparation team was kept small. . . By the time Mr. Obama retreated to Nevada for a final couple days of practice, the debate prep team was getting by on as little as three hours of sleep a night as they crafted answers and attack lines. Mr. Kerry played a range of Mr. Romneys — aggressive, laid back, hard-edge conservative — and got in the president’s face, according to people in the room. Mr. Obama’s alternating performances left aides walking off Air Force One in Denver looking worried.

On stage, Mr. Obama seemed thrown off as Mr. Romney emphasized elements of his agenda that seemed more moderate and was surprised that the moderator, Jim Lehrer of PBS, did not pose more pointed questions. . .
. . .
The president proved as aggressive in his post-debate rallies as he was passive in the debate, but the campaign was besieged by anxious Democrats. Mr. Messina had to pep up a demoralized staff in Chicago. Mr. Obama took the blame during calls with advisers. “This is on me,” he told them. Asked by some if Mr. Kerry was at fault, Mr. Obama said no. “It wasn’t Kerry,” he sad. “Kerry was fine.”


the hard-copy version in today's (Oct. 8) paper, and also the earlier web version, had a more specific explanation of "alternating performances" . That earlier version is still up on Talking Points Memo. http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obama-often-struggled-in-debate-prep-had-to?ref=fpa

Advisers had seen two presidents during practice debates, one who had been listless and passive two nights before and another energetic and aggressive the next night. It turned out the former was the one who showed up in Denver…




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Interesting n/t politicasista Oct 2012 #1
Not surprising. Mass Oct 2012 #5
Yep n/t politicasista Oct 2012 #6
I suspect that, while Kerry was "tough" on Obama... regnaD kciN Oct 2012 #2
I bet you're exactly right Luftmensch067 Oct 2012 #3
I think you're right. Mass Oct 2012 #4
Who would? Kerry knew Romney shifts his position Relisten to Kerry's convention speech karynnj Oct 2012 #7
Nope. Sounds like he mixed it up per MBS's post downthread. beachmom Oct 2012 #19
Good to see some people are honest and do some fact checking. Mass Oct 2012 #8
I feel your pain! MBS Oct 2012 #9
I agree that the SoS /Senate race interaction is ridiculous to speak of karynnj Oct 2012 #10
This was stupid , it's clear now that Obama's Reaction was partly strategy JI7 Oct 2012 #11
I still cannot get a personal grasp Inuca Oct 2012 #12
I also was in disbelief after that debate MBS Oct 2012 #13
What drives me nuts is the fact that dems are that quick to blame Kerry. Mass Oct 2012 #14
well, at least the NYT got it right MBS Oct 2012 #15
Apparently not. With that Pew poll. beachmom Oct 2012 #17
We''ll know soon. It is impossible to know when it comes to the Pew Poll. Mass Oct 2012 #18
What do you mean by Inuca Oct 2012 #21
It's one poll. I just think freaking out over one poll is not smart. beachmom Oct 2012 #23
Being scared is the worst remedy. Sadly, dems fall too often in this trap. Mass Oct 2012 #25
I'll try to calm down :-) n/t Inuca Oct 2012 #27
Here is the Rand page website. Mass Oct 2012 #28
Thanks for the quotes MB Inuca Oct 2012 #20
Looks like JK presented Obama with every Romney version possible Blaukraut Oct 2012 #26
I think many of us were a bit with Shields, thinking that beachmom Oct 2012 #16
About your last sentence Inuca Oct 2012 #22
I enjoyed this Kevin Drum "hack gap" post: beachmom Oct 2012 #24
I agree. We are playing right into the hands of the media and appearing discouraged. wisteria Oct 2012 #29
I saw a little note from EJ DIonne Inuca Oct 2012 #30
Elections come and go. wisteria Oct 2012 #31
For those who want to see a good debate with a moderator doing its job and Mass Oct 2012 #32
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