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Gun Control & RKBA

In reply to the discussion: Firearms insurance? [View all]
 

branford

(4,462 posts)
45. Sigh..., not the insurance issue again.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 03:27 PM
Apr 2016

Your question is apparently sincere, but terribly misguided.

Let me again copy one of my many posts on the subject (I'm a litigation attorney and my practice includes insurance and underwriting issues).


Mandatory insurance is a feel-good measure and a solution looking for a problem.

It also demonstrates a profound lack of knowledge about insurance and the effects of such a law.

First, you cannot insure against your own intentional criminal acts. Insurance also wouldn't cover the effects of violence unconnected to the owner's firearms. Personal liability insurance is not a some general crime victim recovery fund funded by gun owners (which would have its own myriad of constitutional problems). For instance, even if the recent shooter of the reporters in Virginia has liability insurance, the victims' families would not collect a dime from the policy.

Second, since the incidence of firearm negligence among lawful gun owners is minuscule, despite the occasional graphic news story (recall that the USA has about 100+ million legal gun owners and over 300+ million firearms), the cost for such policies would be (and are) negligible. If the government attempted to artificially raise the costs of such insurance above what actuarial standards required, it would become a tax or penalty on gun ownership, and no longer "insurance."

Third, most homeowners and renters policies already cover accidents involving firearms.

Fourth, if the intent and design of the policy is to discourage the exercise of a constitutional right by simply making it more burdensome or expensive, it would almost certainly be unconstitutional in the same manner the courts struck-down poll taxes and literacy tests for voting.

Fifth, the vast majority of crime involving guns do not involve legal firearm owners or guns, and therefore this policy would have little to no effect on crime rates as such firearms would still not be insured even if mandatory. "Mass shootings" are also an extremely small percentage of gun crime.

Sixth, firearm accident insurance and policy riders are already very cheap and readily available, and the NRA is one of its largest proponents. If specific firearm insurance became mandatory, it would be a huge financial windfall for the NRA not only as a provider and vendor (similar to how AARP is a vendor for health and life insurance), but also as an endorser as they are the largest firearms safety organization in the country.

Seventh, there is no data to suggest that the country actually has a problem with uncompensated losses resulting from accidents involving legal firearms. What problem does the mandatory insurance proposal actually address?

Eighth, the lack of liability insurance does not prevent accident victims from suing someone for their negligence or criminal acts.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Firearms insurance? [View all] Tragl1 Apr 2016 OP
I'd be fine with it - except that the rkba is a constitutional right. Requiring jonno99 Apr 2016 #1
Voting generally doesn't require a financial expenditure, but Ilsa Apr 2016 #4
A prudent person would carry liability insurance. To make insurance mandatory would be difficult. nt jonno99 Apr 2016 #5
Why would it be any more difficult than auto insurance? Ilsa Apr 2016 #7
Because - the right to own an automobile is not enshrined in the constitution. jonno99 Apr 2016 #11
Well, we don't give away guns. They have to be purchased Ilsa Apr 2016 #13
I don't disagree with you. Your argument is with the constution and legal precedent. And to jonno99 Apr 2016 #17
The 24th Amendment (1962) protects the right to vote, free of a poll tax or any other fee... Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #42
Right to travel isn't in the constitution, but it's part of the universal declaration of human MillennialDem Apr 2016 #23
Right to travel isn't in the constitution gejohnston Apr 2016 #26
Ok, it's not ENUMERATED in the constitution. So anyway. Yeah why licensing and insurance for MillennialDem Apr 2016 #29
you don't need either one to own a car gejohnston Apr 2016 #35
And so you should need a license AND insurance to operate a gun in MillennialDem Apr 2016 #36
most states do require licenses to carry concealed gejohnston Apr 2016 #37
I'm not sure how that is relevant MillennialDem Apr 2016 #38
Felons can't legally have guns Politicalboi Apr 2016 #30
Wayne LaPierre thanks you for the windfall on the insurance DonP Apr 2016 #33
Not everyone is prudent. Ilsa Apr 2016 #9
Agreed. nt jonno99 Apr 2016 #12
Homeowners/Renters Liability metroins Apr 2016 #2
What if they aren't at home or in their Ilsa Apr 2016 #3
Roughly 500 accidental deaths on average each year and falling (CDC Numbers) DonP Apr 2016 #8
So what you are saying is that I have to bear the costs Ilsa Apr 2016 #10
Not at all, just pointing out where mandatory insurance will very likely lead DonP Apr 2016 #19
Great input Tragl1 Apr 2016 #21
Here's what nearly happened that got me wondering Ilsa Apr 2016 #15
Goes way up once you include injuries, some of which are worse than death MillennialDem Apr 2016 #24
Given a choice, I'll take the injury every time. You're free to choose death. DonP Apr 2016 #32
Not if you're paralyzed. Then you can't even choose death unless you have a relative willing MillennialDem Apr 2016 #34
Liability covers you when not at home metroins Apr 2016 #16
Insurance actuaries don't seem concerned or anxious about civil liability... Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #43
What problem are you trying to solve? JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2016 #6
Yeah TeddyR Apr 2016 #14
I guess I was thinking in the context of say a Sandy Hook? Tragl1 Apr 2016 #22
No liability insurance would cover Sandy Hook. X_Digger Apr 2016 #48
And close to 50% of accidents are due to drunk or high drivers. Doesn't mean insurance is MillennialDem Apr 2016 #25
What about free speech insurance...in case I offend someone and they take me to court? ileus Apr 2016 #18
Or if you run into someone while using a cell phone. JonathanRackham Apr 2016 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #20
Can gang members get group insurance rates? JonathanRackham Apr 2016 #27
Obviously insurance isn't to protect someone from gang members. It's to protect the rare individual MillennialDem Apr 2016 #31
Why should criminals be exempt? JonathanRackham Apr 2016 #39
I didn't say they should be exempt silly bear. I just said they aren't going to buy it anyway MillennialDem Apr 2016 #40
.. JonathanRackham Apr 2016 #41
For simple ownership? Not just no... beevul Apr 2016 #44
Sigh..., not the insurance issue again. branford Apr 2016 #45
So would a top down personal no fault? Tragl1 Apr 2016 #47
When most people discuss "insurance" with respect to guns, branford Apr 2016 #49
It's an attempt to restrict ownership to those with plenty of disposable income, benEzra Apr 2016 #46
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