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Buzz cook

(2,657 posts)
60. Fisking
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 01:20 PM
Apr 2017

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fisking
The word is derived from articles written by Robert Fisk that were easily refuted, and refers to a point-by-point debunking of lies and/or idiocies.
Here we have a great example of a fisking of a clearly biased writer.

I happily admit my bias. And I await you easy denbunking.


.snip very real historical examples of white violence against minorities-which are
nonetheless merely 'argument by association'.


Sadly you use the association fallacy wrongly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

A proper example would be Arms are in the constitution and guns are arms there for guns are in the constitution. That it the fallacy by association.

Here's my argument. Guns in the hands of private citizens are frequently used to support oppressive government. An example of that is committees of vigilance using guns to support the anti minority government of California. It's called evidence you see.

Why, yes, you did- but your examples of violence against people of color neither proves nor disproves
your argument.


So how many examples of private citizens using firearms against minorities are enough? There comes a point were correlation and causation meet. Lynching could not have reached the level it did without the tacit support of government and we know the non governmental forces were organized to terrorize minorities.
It is odd that you're challenging the existence of the KKK.

Or witness the reaction to the Huey P. Newton Gun Club marching in the Dallas area ...


Yes I read the news. In my reading I never saw were the Huey P. Newton Gun Club advocated violence in the same manner that the Aryan Brotherhood does. And I have yet to see a Black Nationalist in the Oval Office as I see members of the Alt Right are.

So choose Black Lives Matter or the Huey P. Newton Gun Club. Which has a better chance of making positive change?
Sorry don't answer its a false dichotomy.

This elides several factors: the roles of Jawaharlal Nehru, Muhammad Ali Jinnah and the All-India Muslim League,
Yes I should have mentioned them while I was referencing the ANC and the Sons of Liberty etc.

Lastly I'm disappointed at your quote mining.
But first to be clear, my belief is that the 2nd amendment's militia clause is the active part of that amendment. At the time the states were fearful of the power of the federal government and wanted to be assured that they could maintain there own armies, just in case. While there were Northerners that held this belief, it was the Southerners, even at that early date jealous to maintain slavery, that championed the 2nd.

So, from your link.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZD1.html
The majority’s conclusion is wrong for two independent reasons. The first reason is that set forth by Justice Stevens—namely, that the Second Amendment protects militia-related, not self-defense-related, interests. These two interests are sometimes intertwined. To assure 18th-century citizens that they could keep arms for militia purposes would necessarily have allowed them to keep arms that they could have used for self-defense as well. But self-defense alone, detached from any militia-related objective, is not the Amendment’s concern.

The second independent reason is that the protection the Amendment provides is not absolute. The Amendment permits government to regulate the interests that it serves. Thus, irrespective of what those interests are—whether they do or do not include an independent interest in self-defense—the majority’s view cannot be correct unless it can show that the District’s regulation is unreasonable or inappropriate in Second Amendment terms. This the majority cannot do.


Here's were you cut your quote.

(2) As evidenced by its preamble, the Amendment was adopted “[w]ith obvious purpose to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness of [militia] forces.” United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, 178 (1939) ; see ante, at 26 (opinion of the Court); ante, at 1 (Stevens, J., dissenting).

(3) The Amendment “must be interpreted and applied with that end in view.” Miller, supra, at 178.

(4) The right protected by the Second Amendment is not absolute, but instead is subject to government regulation. See Robertson v. Baldwin, 165 U. S. 275, 281–282 (1897) ; ante, at 22, 54 (opinion of the Court).

And then there was Stevens.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZD.html
The Second Amendment was adopted to protect the right of the people of each of the several States to maintain a well-regulated militia. It was a response to concerns raised during the ratification of the Constitution that the power of Congress to disarm the state militias and create a national standing army posed an intolerable threat to the sovereignty of the several States. Neither the text of the Amendment nor the arguments advanced by its proponents evidenced the slightest interest in limiting any legislature’s authority to regulate private civilian uses of firearms. Specifically, there is no indication that the Framers of the Amendment intended to enshrine the common-law right of self-defense in the Constitution.


The logical fallacy of quote mining is that someone might actually read the text selectively quoted from.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

So the government still uses muskets? angstlessk Apr 2017 #1
"1. So the government still uses muskets?" wincest Apr 2017 #2
Ever hear of DRONES with WEAPONS? angstlessk Apr 2017 #3
Ever hear of snipers? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #6
So you think citizens can take on the government angstlessk Apr 2017 #7
I think history speaks for itself discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #9
A few rifles is all it takes to defeat the other guys with rifles guarding the big things that Jonny Appleseed Apr 2017 #51
Ever hear of AFGHANISTAN, as of three weeks ago? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2017 #25
And......crickets.. nt pkdu Apr 2017 #53
Arms in the hands of private citizens Buzz cook Apr 2017 #4
don't care wincest Apr 2017 #5
Arms and rights. Straw Man Apr 2017 #12
Jim Crow was inforced by private citizens Buzz cook Apr 2017 #30
Jim Crow was enforced by racist police departments. Straw Man Apr 2017 #35
The right to bear arms is tits on a bore. Buzz cook Apr 2017 #46
Some of your responses are rather ahistorical, and deserve a fisking friendly_iconoclast Apr 2017 #55
Fisking Buzz cook Apr 2017 #60
Specifically, there is no indication that the Framers of the Amendment gejohnston Apr 2017 #61
Yup gun control has a racist aspect and Buzz cook Apr 2017 #74
Perhaps you meant "boar" -- or was that a pun? Straw Man Apr 2017 #56
Hey thanks for implying that I was a racist Buzz cook Apr 2017 #59
You made your bed. Straw Man Apr 2017 #62
You're showing your ignorance. Buzz cook Apr 2017 #73
Of what? Straw Man Apr 2017 #75
Well I guess then you're Buzz cook Apr 2017 #77
Silly. Straw Man Apr 2017 #78
The reek of weekend warrior is in the air. It must be spring. Squinch Apr 2017 #8
"reek" wincest Apr 2017 #11
So, Eko Apr 2017 #10
You are allowed to have M 249s sarisataka Apr 2017 #13
What a travesty Eko Apr 2017 #14
I don't have any issues sarisataka Apr 2017 #15
So, Eko Apr 2017 #17
It says you have the right to bear arms sarisataka Apr 2017 #18
The infantry Eko Apr 2017 #20
I have already said sarisataka Apr 2017 #21
Yes. Eko Apr 2017 #22
"If" sarisataka Apr 2017 #31
Eh, Eko Apr 2017 #36
I would disagree sarisataka Apr 2017 #39
Thanks!! Eko Apr 2017 #41
Not exactly. needledriver Apr 2017 #47
That statistic comes from a survey. Eko Apr 2017 #48
You forgot to quote this paragraph. needledriver Apr 2017 #49
True, Eko Apr 2017 #50
W/regard to Kleck's methodology: pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #57
The CDC that Democrats hold in such high esteem refutes Hemenway pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #58
Uh huh. Eko Apr 2017 #63
Why quote from some WaPo employee gejohnston Apr 2017 #64
Wrong. pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #68
Pablo, he must have missed the 500+ post re: Okie self defense in GD. nt yagotme Apr 2017 #71
* pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #79
Excuse the intrusion discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #23
No one has said "each". Eko Apr 2017 #24
The 2A/RKBA has been acknowledged as an "individual" right discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #26
It just seems quite odd. Eko Apr 2017 #29
re: "Would that really be where voting is a right?" agreed sort of discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2017 #33
True. Eko Apr 2017 #37
your god damn right wincest Apr 2017 #16
Why even argue with eko Alea Apr 2017 #19
As a history nerd, I have to say muskets were better weapons for an army. That Guy 888 Apr 2017 #27
Somewhat true. Straw Man Apr 2017 #45
For those of us not in CA, what happens to you HeartachesNhangovers Apr 2017 #28
Do you even have to ask haha Alea Apr 2017 #34
I would, but I don't own any firearms still_one Apr 2017 #32
You could buy one ... Straw Man Apr 2017 #38
hmmmm, Is it required by law that I have to buy a firearm? still_one Apr 2017 #40
Ummmm, ... Straw Man Apr 2017 #42
whew........ Thanks still_one Apr 2017 #43
You're welcome! Straw Man Apr 2017 #44
I continue to wonder why grown men still play 'cowboys & Indians' fantasy. nt fleabiscuit Apr 2017 #52
No need to be sexist. Women play, too. yagotme Apr 2017 #67
Only if we can register A1 Tanks and RPGs too , and maybe Nukes? nt pkdu Apr 2017 #54
You can gejohnston Apr 2017 #65
You can buy all the armored vehicles you can afford. However, if you want to have yagotme Apr 2017 #66
IIRC, gejohnston Apr 2017 #69
If that was the case then, yagotme Apr 2017 #70
Demilling the receivers wasn't what I was thinking of gejohnston Apr 2017 #72
Smaller weapons, cut receivers. yagotme Apr 2017 #76
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