2016 Postmortem

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)

138. I didn't say "a different message." I said "the exact same message."

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:04 PM

Dec 2016

Any number of factors could have made the difference when we're talking about 80,000 votes spread out over 3 states. Eliminate any *one* of those factors that you and I have listed, and I think we would have had a different result.

I suspect Biden, for instance, would have won. Even if his message and tactics were identical. I think there are a lot of folks who would have voted for the Dem nominee had it not been Clinton, who was victimized by 25+ years of hate (much of it rooted in sexism).

Mind you, I still expected Clinton to win. I wasn't expecting the last minute interference of the FBI or for the media to be as bad as it was. The voter suppression we knew would be a problem thanks in large part to the Shelby County v. Holder decision. We can't quantify exactly how much impact it had, but - again - it's one of several factors that all by itself could have made the difference in a super tight race.

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Please stop with this b***shit that the Democrats are out of touch with the voting population [View all] DetlefK Dec 2016 OP

Sheer Gaslighting no_hypocrisy Dec 2016 #1

Its pure FOX NEWS yuiyoshida Dec 2016 #29

Joe the Intern Killer was peddling it this morning. lastlib Dec 2016 #30

Morning Joe on MSNBC? yuiyoshida Dec 2016 #42

You are referring to the movie Gaslight, right? still_one Dec 2016 #33

Oh yes. That movie no_hypocrisy Dec 2016 #43

That isa great analogy, thanks still_one Dec 2016 #44

One further reference to the Cinema no_hypocrisy Dec 2016 #52

TWO THUMBS UP still_one Dec 2016 #53

I am not, either. duffyduff Dec 2016 #60

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2016 #109

Most of America agrees with most of the views Democrats hold. Many by large majorities. tecelote Dec 2016 #2

People don't vote based on issues and policy BainsBane Dec 2016 #64

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #146

A couple of things. CrispyQ Dec 2016 #69

You make great points. It seems the Dems are always fighting the OhioBlue Dec 2016 #97

Yeap, the GOP has to lie about their positions uponit7771 Dec 2016 #110

We lost the Presidency, the House, the Senate and have gotten killed at the state level. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #3

yeah, people voted based on fear of "others" rather than hope. boston bean Dec 2016 #4

I never said that. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #15

You do know they cheat, hack, suppress and tamper, right? brush Dec 2016 #21

...AND gerrymander! lastlib Dec 2016 #32

You can't Gerrymander governor races... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #89

Can't gerrymander statewide Senate races IronLionZion Dec 2016 #105

Either that... or Electoral College, partisan gerrymandering and suppression of the black vote. DetlefK Dec 2016 #5

Those issues play into it. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #16

Because of gerrymandering, why is that concept having to be explained on DU? Gerrymandering is uponit7771 Dec 2016 #111

Obama didn't have time for these excuses in both of his elections IronLionZion Dec 2016 #80

Obama's messaging was undergirded with real policies EffieBlack Dec 2016 #104

Maybe not resonating in your den. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #14

My den? Speak for yourself. I voted for Hillary. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #17

So Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #85

I'm saying it isn't only about the Presidency as way too many here are focusing on. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #87

Google gerrymandering and census. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #148

+1!!! Absolutely! Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #19

Russian hackers also targeted congressional races, so that is at least part of it ehrnst Dec 2016 #22

Republicans are dangerously close to passing constitutional amendments IronLionZion Dec 2016 #74

But there's nothing to see here. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #78

We could stick our heads in the sand and shelter in place IronLionZion Dec 2016 #81

Yup, and I know what it is.... Adrahil Dec 2016 #95

It is an urban vs. rural divide oberliner Dec 2016 #6

We need to revitalize the urban areas in red and swing states so we can tolerate moving there JudyM Dec 2016 #66

Thank you mcar Dec 2016 #7

They are feeling guilty. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #13

They have seriously been on a roll. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #37

Guilt makes them blind. Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #86

We may as well have... it's like we lost a national election to Dan Quayle. Nt dionysus Dec 2016 #98

The argument that it doesn't matter because electoral college! is so stupid kcr Dec 2016 #8

WE WON YUUUUGLY, but the system is rigged. Coyotl Dec 2016 #9

The margin would have been even larger if not for "cross check" GoCubsGo Dec 2016 #40

The electoral college was reversed by Crosscheck. Coyotl Dec 2016 #45

Maybe out of touch with the electoral college... Joe941 Dec 2016 #10

I'm perfectly fine with Democrats being out of touch with racists and other bigots. LonePirate Dec 2016 #11

The worst is when Democrats Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #12

Do you want to keep losing? IronLionZion Dec 2016 #18

obviously Russian hack, traitorous FBI, media myopia and groupthink hurt greenman3610 Dec 2016 #20

I'll admit I believed the blue wall would hold IronLionZion Dec 2016 #25

More debunked nonsense. NT duffyduff Dec 2016 #61

Ignore foreign interference. duffyduff Dec 2016 #59

There's only so much we can do about bigots and Russians IronLionZion Dec 2016 #71

"Our Mistakes" are NOT Comey, voter suppression and Russia... false sense's of self control wont uponit7771 Dec 2016 #112

Do those excuses work for the Senate and house and governorships? IronLionZion Dec 2016 #127

Yes, voter suppression and gerrymandering work for local and state level. We should know this by uponit7771 Dec 2016 #128

What's your plan of action to fix it? IronLionZion Dec 2016 #130

A laser focus on free and fair elections by bringing as many post election law suites as possible... uponit7771 Dec 2016 #131

Sounds like a good plan IronLionZion Dec 2016 #134

And that's why we won so bigly! Only... Tatiana Dec 2016 #23

The visit my website stuff during the debates drove me crazy. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #28

Even if you go purely by the numbers, there's no clear right-wing trend in the US: DetlefK Dec 2016 #34

That doesn't explain Republicans doing better in the House vote than the Presidential vote. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #51

I didn't say the country was turning more right-wing in its beliefs. Tatiana Dec 2016 #93

Then why did ONLY 25.6% of ALL ELIGIBLE VOTERS vote for Clinton? Lurks Often Dec 2016 #24

If we're going to fuss about voter turn out and not take into consideration voter suppression. JHan Dec 2016 #26

Again, 74% of voters either stayed the fuck home or voted against her Lurks Often Dec 2016 #27

You are denying voter suppression didn't play a part this year? JHan Dec 2016 #35

Still you miss the point Lurks Often Dec 2016 #49

I've missed no point.. JHan Dec 2016 #56

Explain why 46.9% of the country stayed home Lurks Often Dec 2016 #67

If you want reasons why people don't go out to vote.. JHan Dec 2016 #70

So why do Democrats keep staying home and letting Republicans win? Lurks Often Dec 2016 #73

PBS: more than 58% of eligible voters went to the polls during the 2016 election ucrdem Dec 2016 #76

Thanks URCdem. JHan Dec 2016 #77

It's basically a media deception ucrdem Dec 2016 #83

Interesting, the 2 sites we each used as a source Lurks Often Dec 2016 #88

Because we didn't want Clinton JesterCS Dec 2016 #96

It's unlikely Sanders could have won the general election Lurks Often Dec 2016 #103

You didn't want Clinton, JHan Dec 2016 #115

Oh yes we know, it's all about "her" JesterCS Dec 2016 #135

It was never about "her".. JHan Dec 2016 #136

Yes, they're going to continue to say that in order to focus on the wrong issue to. Voter suppressio uponit7771 Dec 2016 #113

Or that every GOPer is racist. While a vast majority of racist voters are GOP, it doesn't mean dionysus Dec 2016 #99

Yes, unfortunately if we don't win by a landslide True_Blue Dec 2016 #68

That's code for "Shut up, go away, go support some impossible candidates who won't win shit." MADem Dec 2016 #31

No-one is suggesting we abandon those groups for christs sake! Kentonio Dec 2016 #47

It's kind of bizarre, isn't it? OnionPatch Dec 2016 #84

I have nothing in common with racists, and I've seen lots of this "How can we appeal to the MADem Dec 2016 #91

Sure you are, you're playing EXACTLY his game. Kentonio Dec 2016 #92

Right back atcha, then. MADem Dec 2016 #94

Dean thought we could convert republicans, and his 50 state strategy is lauded. And just dionysus Dec 2016 #101

That's like saying "The desserts at this restaurant are wonderful, and beets are on sale at the MADem Dec 2016 #107

Many if not most trump fans are assholes. But are you going to extend dionysus Dec 2016 #108

Republicans who voted for him are assholes. You can't parse this. MADem Dec 2016 #122

I know, crazy, isn't it? dionysus Dec 2016 #100

BULL FUCKING SHIT !!! If black supremacist ran like Benedict Donald did there'd be NO ONE on DU uponit7771 Dec 2016 #116

I have to agree with you. The high dudgeon would be "epic" as the kids say.... MADem Dec 2016 #124

Because I'm sick of hearing excuses about Comey and Russia quite frankly. Kentonio Dec 2016 #125

lofl.... huge Ji-Nah... lol uponit7771 Dec 2016 #114

What we DON'T have to do man on the moonshine Dec 2016 #36

So basically any white working voter who didn't vote for us is a 'white racist idiot'? Kentonio Dec 2016 #48

Nice Twist! man on the moonshine Dec 2016 #55

You're the one who appears to have twisted the idea that we should outreach into working white areas Kentonio Dec 2016 #58

Working whites don't have time to show up at Tea Party rallies in the afternoon man on the moonshine Dec 2016 #62

Why are you focusing on who we should exclude? Kentonio Dec 2016 #65

Meanwhile the Republicans run everything for the next 30 years while we wait for demographics... Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #63

Because of Voter suppression and hacking, I see those who push for anything outside of the ... uponit7771 Dec 2016 #117

Voter supression definitely plays into it. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #121

We did win the white working class voters ... the M$M meme is we lost them but according uponit7771 Dec 2016 #123

Who on this board says we should tailor our message to racists? OnionPatch Dec 2016 #82

record low voter participation? LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #38

Lower than 2012, 2008 and 2004. DetlefK Dec 2016 #50

Hearing it is important Wernothelpless Dec 2016 #39

We have a media that demonizes all Democratic positions libtodeath Dec 2016 #41

OMG!!!! THIS. They've been doing this "Al Gore said he invented the internet" LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #72

been true for a long time, and we keep trying to work with the corporations that own our media. It JCanete Dec 2016 #90

the DNC ,,,, Cryptoad Dec 2016 #46

You are right. duffyduff Dec 2016 #54

I don't buy it either True_Blue Dec 2016 #57

RIGHT !!! The people who are continuing to vie for turning the message towards "white working class" uponit7771 Dec 2016 #118

K'n'R, but for the record, voter turnout in 2016 was the HIGHEST ever ucrdem Dec 2016 #75

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THREAD WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uponit7771 Dec 2016 #119

Thank you! ucrdem Dec 2016 #144

Those promoting that meme are full of shit. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #79

YESSS!!!!! nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #106

people do NOT want to eat kale. pansypoo53219 Dec 2016 #102

A different Democrat with the same message and strategy would have won. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #120

So Comey, voter suppression and Russia weren't an effect in this election!?!? REALLY !?!? uponit7771 Dec 2016 #129

Of course they were. I never suggested otherwise. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #132

I disagree with "never suggested" by not placing on the onus on those factors it does suggest such uponit7771 Dec 2016 #133

I didn't say "a different message." I said "the exact same message." Garrett78 Dec 2016 #138

But the measured and empirical factors we KNOW of are Comey, voter suppression and uponit7771 Dec 2016 #139

We don't know the exact impact of any one factor. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #140

Again, it doesn't make a difference the exact impact... that there .... WAS.... impact at all.. uponit7771 Dec 2016 #145

Your previous reply seemed to be suggesting that certain factors are measurable in their impact. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #147

what did they fail to offer? yurbud Dec 2016 #126

the problem is 50% of the country is completely out of touch with reality. Takket Dec 2016 #137

I wrote about that here: Garrett78 Dec 2016 #141

I think this is the wrong approach. WilliamH1474 Dec 2016 #142

Probably each of those diners had had an anti-Hillary message targeted just for them. ucrdem Dec 2016 #143